View Poll Results: Is non concentual sex always rape

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  • Yes, non concensual sex is always rape

    56 77.78%
  • No, non concensual sex is not always rape

    16 22.22%
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Thread: Non consentual sex is not rape

  1. #181
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    I think the word games at Yale are designed to get rich kids with parents that contribute to Yale off the hook but it's just a theory. On the other hand it could be some entirely new "progressive" way of defining rape that escapes me.
    I strongly suspect that you are right and the whole thing is an effort to placate rich parents with kids with a giant sense of entitlement to keep the gravy train rolling for all concerned.
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  2. #182
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I strongly suspect that you are right and the whole thing is an effort to placate rich parents with kids with a giant sense of entitlement to keep the gravy train rolling for all concerned.
    That might be true, unless the "victims" are also Yale students....but of course if the accused are sports stars at the school then all bets are off.
    We all know that athletes at prestigious colleges can get away with just about anything.

  3. #183
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    And that was about rapes reported to police, not sexual assaults/rapes reported in other fashions, which would most likely have a higher possibility of being false. Think about it. You want to get someone else in trouble but don't want to get yourself in trouble as well and you are in college. So you figure if you know of a time when you had sex with someone while you were drunk you can use that. It then becomes a he said/she said report. And with the way our colleges are working, in no small part due to media and just PC-ism, there would be an investigation by the campus which would require less evidence to prove that a rape happened than if it were reported to proper authorities, especially if the report is coming more than a couple of days after the incident.

    This is the sort of thing that happens in the military. There are women that take advantage of the fact that the military basically treats any accusation of rape as the guy is guilty, especially if he admits to having sex with the woman while she had been drinking at all, even if he had also been drinking. The police and/or DA would not likely have enough evidence to even bring such a case to trial, let alone convict the guy, but that isn't the case when it comes to punishment by an outside organization. Or, like that report that was done a couple of years ago, they compiled the number of women vets who were claiming sexual assault on VA benefits forms and used that as an indicator as to how many women in the military were being sexually assaulted. This is completely flawed. Those women are specifically looking for benefits and something like sexual assault can get them some benefits without providing any proof whatsoever that it happened. They didn't even have to have reported it while they were in, just claim it on the form.
    Your word against theirs. Who am I supposed to believe, an organization who has dedicated resources to uncovering the truth of the matter, or one random person on an internet forum?
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  4. #184
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Your word against theirs. Who am I supposed to believe, an organization who has dedicated resources to uncovering the truth of the matter, or one random person on an internet forum?
    You can believe who or what you want. I am pointing out that it is wrong to claim a false accusation statistic would be the same for non-legal reporting as it is for legal repoorting. There are different factors that come into play, including likelihood of being found "guilty" and facing punishment (which would be higher with non-legal reports).
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  5. #185
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    To suggest that, without a reasonable doubt, beyond any question, that 100% of all claims and accusations of rape are justifiable and legally defined as guilty, is beyond asinine.

    It's just downright stupid.

    To use the word "always" is just a complete failure to be reasonable and intelligent.

    Even if the crime is "rape".

  6. #186
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You can believe who or what you want. I am pointing out that it is wrong to claim a false accusation statistic would be the same for non-legal reporting as it is for legal repoorting. There are different factors that come into play, including likelihood of being found "guilty" and facing punishment (which would be higher with non-legal reports).
    Do you have statistics on this?
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  7. #187
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    To suggest that, without a reasonable doubt, beyond any question, that 100% of all claims and accusations of rape are justifiable and legally defined as guilty, is beyond asinine.
    That is a blatant distortion of my position. And it's a clear sign that your own position is faltering.

    It's just downright stupid.

    To use the word "always" is just a complete failure to be reasonable and intelligent.

    Even if the crime is "rape".
    Yes or no: Are there some circumstances in which a woman says "no" to sexual contact but the man continues, yet it isn't rape? Yes or no--there's no wiggle room here.
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  8. #188
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    That is a blatant distortion of my position. And it's a clear sign that your own position is faltering.

    Yes or no: Are there some circumstances in which a woman says "no" to sexual contact but the man continues, yet it isn't rape? Yes or no--there's no wiggle room here.
    I've tried to follow your position but I am not sure what you are arguing. I consider "non-cosensual sex" to cover several areas. It could be outright sexual assault which is clearly rape. But it could also be a situation where a woman did not say anything, appeared to be a willing participant, and then later for any number of reasons, cried "rape." She is claiming it was non-consentual but it becomes a She-said/He-said situation.

    I think I made the following point earlier in the thread: Women today are more aware of "rape" issues than ever before. If a woman is raped she knows that she should immediately report the incident to the "real" police and not the campus security or the school administration. 911 is a very easy number to remember.

    However, the issue sometimes seems to come up days later and well after the "fact." The female claims she was intoxicated and "only knows because people said it happened to me while I was unconscious;" so she reports it. Or she was conscious and seemed willing at the time but blames intoxication/drugs when she gets "sober." Or she was willing and then gets upset because the boy she liked only wanted "one thing," so it's payback time. By "willing" I don't mean she says "yes, lets do it" clearly indicating to all and sundry "consent." A nod, and actively assisting in getting ready seemed to be all the indicators I needed of consent.

    After all, should men be carrying around a permission document along with their pack of condoms and require a signature to prove "consent?"

    So why are you emphasizing this "No" point, when very few women say Yes and if they say "No" they are very clear about it. How about when neither yes nor no was stated or clearly indicated in any manner? You don't see the possibility that this can be identified as "non-consensual sex" claim at the time of accusation?
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 08-17-13 at 03:11 AM.
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  9. #189
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    My wife doesn't confuse me with mixed signals.

    She plainly tells me "I want you!"

    Just as plain, she tells me, quit bothering me, old man.

    No confusion there.

    Now before I'm accused of blaming women for getting raped, by sending mixed messages, that is NOT my point.

    I taught my daughters to go after the balls if attacked.

    No. Not the testicles.

    The EYEBALLS. And be seriously determined to scratch them out.

    Nobody is feeling sufficiently aroused to risk blindness.

    And it DOES indicate NO! NO WAY! in no uncertain terms!
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  10. #190
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Some states make a distinction between sexual assault and aggravated sexual assault ("rape" isn't the legal term anymore).

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