View Poll Results: Is non concentual sex always rape

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  • Yes, non concensual sex is always rape

    56 77.78%
  • No, non concensual sex is not always rape

    16 22.22%
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Thread: Non consentual sex is not rape

  1. #161
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I just reread the OP and did not see a single mention in the article of alcohol or inebriation. Instead, I saw allegations of a continued culture of letting rapists off with a slap on the wrist.
    Then try looking outside the OP article for this info.

    Yale promises more info on misconduct penalties - SFGate

    "In many cases, the complainant and respondent come to altogether different understandings of what transpired," Salovey wrote. "In too many cases, excessive alcohol consumption blurs memory."
    Pretty sure this was posted earlier in the thread as well. But it shows that there is more to the story. A lot more than what is being reported.

    It is absolutely not fair to simply believe that just because someone claims sexual assault that the person they point the finger at is guilty.
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  2. #162
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    1.)That's not how it works.
    2.)You reinforced each other.
    3.) You did not convince me. I'm open to evidence
    4.) but the burden will be on you to change my mind.
    1.)actually its exactly how it works lol
    2.) i reinforced facts
    3.) lol not my goal to convince you, convincing you is meaningless to the facts
    4.) LMAO did you think this would actually work, there is no burden of proof related to YOU, facts have already been provide that prove my statement true

    so now your options are to believe or not believe the facts, either way nobody honest cares has your beliefs dont impact facts

    if you disagree by all means though FACTUALLY prove the statement wrong, id LOVE to read it

    ill repeat the facts again just in case you missed it

    "16 pages and the fact remains that not all non-consensual sex is rape"
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  3. #163
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    I think the issue here, at least for me, is the word "always".
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post

    "16 pages and the fact remains that not all non-consensual sex is rape"

    Yep. Agree.

  4. #164
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.)actually its exactly how it works lol
    2.) i reinforced facts
    3.) lol not my goal to convince you, convincing you is meaningless to the facts
    4.) LMAO did you think this would actually work, there is no burden of proof related to YOU, facts have already been provide that prove my statement true

    so now your options are to believe or not believe the facts, either way nobody honest cares has your beliefs dont impact facts

    if you disagree by all means though FACTUALLY prove the statement wrong, id LOVE to read it

    ill repeat the facts again just in case you missed it

    "16 pages and the fact remains that not all non-consensual sex is rape"
    Buddy, if you really believe this, then you have some serious misunderstandings as to how "burden of proof" works. Prove to me that there is no celestial teapot that is undetectable by telescopes orbiting the sun.

    Furthermore, your attempt to pigeonhole this issue into one single matter--whether drunk sex is rape--misses the bigger picture, which is exactly what arguments that enable our culture of rape do.
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  5. #165
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonfly View Post
    Yep. Agree.
    yep, as soon as one makes that statement in blanket form and suggests that ALL non-consensual sex is rap they are factually wrong.

    Not a hard fact to understand but obviously some are struggling with easy concepts.
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  6. #166
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    1.)Buddy, if you really believe this, then you have some serious misunderstandings as to how "burden of proof" works.
    2.) Prove to me that there is no celestial teapot that is undetectable by telescopes orbiting the sun.

    3.)Furthermore, your attempt to pigeonhole this issue into one single matter--whether drunk sex is rape--misses the bigger picture, which is exactly what arguments that enable our culture of rape do.
    1.) facts >greater than your opinion

    theres no burden of proof on me LMAO

    2.) this example fails because facts have already been provided sorry you lose to facts again

    3.) ????

    please dont make stuff up because it further shows desperation, i haven't pigeon hold anything, i simple made a factually statement, i never addressed whether drunk sex is rape, sorry

    my statement and facts still stand but the pages have increased.

    "17 pages and the fact remains that not all non-consensual sex is rape"

    let us know when this fact changes
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  7. #167
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Then try looking outside the OP article for this info.

    Yale promises more info on misconduct penalties - SFGate



    Pretty sure this was posted earlier in the thread as well. But it shows that there is more to the story. A lot more than what is being reported.

    It is absolutely not fair to simply believe that just because someone claims sexual assault that the person they point the finger at is guilty.
    Wait, I'm supposed to read up on follow-up news stories before taking the negative position in a debate? Yet those taking the affirmative position can just cite the original story and leave it at that? Wow, that's a new one. I didn't even know that was a tactic! That little ruse may come in handy for me.

    But for the purposes of the rest of this post, I will overlook that. Here is what I read in the article:

    The report, which covers sexual misconduct complaints against students and staff for the first half of the year, includes updates on four cases in which students are accused of having nonconsensual sex with female students. One student was suspended for two semesters, another was placed on probation and two others were given written reprimands, according to the report, which described two of the cases as involving nonconsensual acts during otherwise consensual sexual activity.
    Four cases mentioned, already the "non-consensual sex" euphemism is used, zero mention of alcohol. Moving on...

    Yale uses the term "nonconsensual sex" to describe a range of behaviors that fall within a broad definition of sexual misconduct, the statement said.
    Ahhhhh. Finally someone alludes to a definition, and it gives me a reason to maybe, just maybe, rethink my position. All rape is sexual assault--or whatever the hell this "non-consensual sex" is--but not all sexual assault is rape. Now we just need to figure out what counts as "non-consensual sex."

    "It is evident that Yale's report must be more descriptive about what is meant by 'nonconsensual sex' and more information should be made available to advise the community about the basis for penalties," Salovey wrote.

    Yale's standard of consent is "extremely rigorous," requiring clean consent at every stage of a sexual encounter, Salovey said.

    "In many cases, the complainant and respondent come to altogether different understandings of what transpired," Salovey wrote. "In too many cases, excessive alcohol consumption blurs memory."

    Brodsky said the president is demonstrating a strong commitment to stopping sexual violence, but she said his statement also perpetuates a myth that consent is blurry.
    Is the highlighted phrase The standard we are looking for? Or is that just one of the guidelines? Or just an abbreviated summary? And what counts as "clean consent"?

    By the way, we have our first mention of alcohol. Notice it says "in too many cases," NOT "in all cases," implying that other factors are at work.

    And that's it. Your claim that this dilemma is all about drunk sex is clearly false.
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  8. #168
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) facts >greater than your opinion

    theres no burden of proof on me LMAO

    2.) this example fails because facts have already been provided sorry you lose to facts again

    3.) ????

    please dont make stuff up because it further shows desperation, i haven't pigeon hold anything, i simple made a factually statement, i never addressed whether drunk sex is rape, sorry

    my statement and facts still stand but the pages have increased.

    "17 pages and the fact remains that not all non-consensual sex is rape"

    let us know when this fact changes
    Prove to me that there is no celestial teapot in orbit that is undetectable by telescopes, then we will talk.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

  9. #169
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Prove to me that there is no celestial teapot in orbit that is undetectable by telescopes, then we will talk.
    LOL thats what i thought you got nothing

    you lose to facts again, but please continue to be dishonest and make stuff up

    "17 pages and the fact remains that not all non-consensual sex is rape"

    let us know when this fact changes
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  10. #170
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    Re: Non consentual sex is not rape

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    LOL thats what i thought you got nothing

    you lose to facts again, but please continue to be dishonest and make stuff up

    "17 pages and the fact remains that not all non-consensual sex is rape"

    let us know when this fact changes
    Just as I thought, you do not understand the concept of burden of proof.

    When you learn it, feel free to let me know.
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
    "Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections." --Mitt Romney

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