View Poll Results: Which of the two sides would you put this person?

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  • I'm Pro-Life and I would probably say pro-life

    2 8.33%
  • I'm Pro-Life and I would probably say pro-choice

    8 33.33%
  • I'm Pro-Choice and would probably say pro-life

    0 0%
  • I'm Pro-Choice and would probably say pro-choice

    9 37.50%
  • I'm Pro-Life and I'm honestly unsure

    1 4.17%
  • I'm Pro-Choice and I'm honestly unsure

    4 16.67%
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Thread: What would you consider this portion in regards to abortoin

  1. #11
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    Re: What would you consider this portion in regards to abortoin

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Say you have an individual who holds the following view.

    During the first trimester, abortion should be legal for any reason. However, after the first trimester it will be illegal save for instances where the woman's physical health is severely in danger OR in the case of rape and incest where an investigation provides reason to believe they were prevented from seeking the abortion earlier by the perpetrator (which essentially would require the occurence to be reported to the police or child services, and thus verifiable).

    Would you refer to this person "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice?
    I'm pro-choice, and would also call that position pro-choice. It matches my own position fairly closely, though I'd push the window out to 20 weeks, and I'd add an exception after that if it was found that the fetus wasn't viable.
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    Re: What would you consider this portion in regards to abortoin

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So just so I understand you...you consider anyone who doesn't believe in complete illegalization of abortion to be pro-choice? So someone who believes it's okay only in cases of the mother's life is in danger, and that's it, would be "pro-choice" because they're open to legalized abortions in a specific fashion?
    Yes. If you would allow an elective choice in any situation, you are pro-choice. Pro-life means it's only acceptable to kill the ZEF when it would be acceptable to kill a born person. You can't kill a 10 year old because they were conceived through rape, or are a hindrance to your career, or it's hard to pay their bills, so the pro-life view is you cannot abort for those reasons either.

  3. #13
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    Re: What would you consider this portion in regards to abortoin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Yes. If you would allow an elective choice in any situation, you are pro-choice. Pro-life means it's only acceptable to kill the ZEF when it would be acceptable to kill a born person. You can't kill a 10 year old because they were conceived through rape, or are a hindrance to your career, or it's hard to pay their bills, so the pro-life view is you cannot abort for those reasons either.
    I have to admit that is logically consistent. More consistent than thinking the first trimester should be the dividing line.
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  4. #14
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    Re: What would you consider this portion in regards to abortoin

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    So just so I understand you...you consider anyone who doesn't believe in complete illegalization of abortion to be pro-choice? So someone who believes it's okay only in cases of the mother's life is in danger, and that's it, would be "pro-choice" because they're open to legalized abortions in a specific fashion?
    I would argue that anyone who supports legalized on-demand-abortion is pro-choice,because most people who are pro-life oppose on-demand-abortion . So I wouldn't consider favoring abortion only to save the mother's life to be pro-choice assuming doctors have verified that carrying the child to 50% viabilty and that a vaginal or c-section birth will cost the mother her life.
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    Re: What would you consider this portion in regards to abortoin

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Say you have an individual who holds the following view.

    During the first trimester, abortion should be legal for any reason. However, after the first trimester it will be illegal save for instances where the woman's physical health is severely in danger OR in the case of rape and incest where an investigation provides reason to believe they were prevented from seeking the abortion earlier by the perpetrator (which essentially would require the occurence to be reported to the police or child services, and thus verifiable).

    Would you refer to this person "Pro-Life" or "Pro-Choice?
    I would call that person "me". It would generally fall under "pro-choice" since abortion on demand in the first trimester is generally close to the definition of "pro-choice".

    And don't get me started on my hatred of the labels "pro-choice" and "pro-life"....
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    Re: What would you consider this portion in regards to abortoin

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    The definition of pro-life is opposition to legalized abortion.So that person is pro-choice.Now that person may not be as rabid abortionist as say someone who thinks abortion should be legal all the way until the baby pops out, but that person is still pro-choice
    Pro-life | Define Pro-life at Dictionary.com
    opposed to legalized abortion; right-to-life.

    Pro-choice | Define Pro-choice at Dictionary.com
    supporting or advocating legalized abortion
    Just to be clear, the definition of "pro-choice" is not "the opposite of pro-life".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  7. #17
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    Re: What would you consider this portion in regards to abortoin

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Just to be clear, the definition of "pro-choice" is not "the opposite of pro-life".
    Pro-choice favors legalized on demand abortion.Pro-life side opposes legalized on-demand-abortion.So pro-choice is the opposite of pro-life.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: What would you consider this portion in regards to abortoin

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Pro-choice favors legalized on demand abortion.Pro-life side opposes legalized on-demand-abortion.So pro-choice is the opposite of pro-life.
    Which has nothing to do with what I said. You said that since "pro-life" opposed abortion on demand, this made it "pro-choice". Pro-choice is not defined by pro-life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  9. #19
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    Re: What would you consider this portion in regards to abortoin

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Which has nothing to do with what I said. You said that since "pro-life" opposed abortion on demand, this made it "pro-choice". Pro-choice is not defined by pro-life.
    We know. No one said pro-choice was defined by pro-life.

  10. #20
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    Re: What would you consider this portion in regards to abortoin

    I think the confusion comes into play in that James quoted the definitions, but then has been arguing something else.

    The definitions he quoted put the deliniating line at whether or not someone agrees with legalized abortion.

    His PERSONAL definition seems to change that to whether or not someone believes in "Abortion on demand" (which, he can correct me if I'm wrong, he seems to be defining as "any point in which abortoin can be undergone for any reason) or not is what differentiates the two. So pro-choice would be anyone who believes in "abortion on demand" in any fashion and pro-life would be anyone who believes in "no abortion on demand" in any fashion.

    I think a bit of confusion came into play because he chose to quote dictionary definitions that don't fit his own definition

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