View Poll Results: How should presidents be elected

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Thread: The electoral college

  1. #51
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's not unresolvable, in case of a "tie" (no one gets 270), the Congress selects President.
    That's the current rule, in connection with the Electoral College. If we did away with the Electoral College, we'd have to also change this rule, I think. I don't think we'd ever be able to resolve the popular vote down to a difference of one or two votes, so we'd probably have to set a threshold of closeness, and if the election is closer than that margin, call it a “tie” and leave it to Congress to determine the winner. Otherwise, a close election would result in Florida 2000 on a national scale.


    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    B/S!!! "For all intents and purposes" Al Gore got 500 thousand more votes than George Bush. Had it not been for the Electoral College he would have been elected President. Period!

    United States presidential election, 2000 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The difference was very well within the margin of error in the count as it existed. There were quite a bit more uncounted absentee votes in California alone than that. They weren't counted, because without them, California's outcome was already established, but if we were going by national popular vote, then it would have been necessary to count them. As California's absentee votes generally tend to lean significantly more conservative than the non-absentee votes, it's very likely that this, alone, would have shifted the popular vote to Bush's side.

    But then just imagine also, what happened in Florida, happening on a national scale, with fifty different states, and fifty different voting systems, each one being examined in painstaking detail to figure out what errors they might introduce, and to determine which, if any of them, might have biased their results one way or another. I say that if this had happened, that even by now, eight years after the end of the term for which that election was being held, that we still could not have known for sure who the legitimate winner was.
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  2. #52
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    That's the current rule, in connection with the Electoral College. If we did away with the Electoral College, we'd have to also change this rule, I think. I don't think we'd ever be able to resolve the popular vote down to a difference of one or two votes, so we'd probably have to set a threshold of closeness, and if the election is closer than that margin, call it a “tie” and leave it to Congress to determine the winner. Otherwise, a close election would result in Florida 2000 on a national scale.
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  3. #53
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    The difference was very well within the margin of error in the count as it existed. There were quite a bit more uncounted absentee votes in California alone than that. They weren't counted, because without them, California's outcome was already established, but if we were going by national popular vote, then it would have been necessary to count them. As California's absentee votes generally tend to lean significantly more conservative than the non-absentee votes, it's very likely that this, alone, would have shifted the popular vote to Bush's side.
    Ummmm Nah! Margin of error occurs in statistics not in a vote count. 540,000 more popular votes than an opponent obtained makes that man the winner in an election decided by popular vote.

    Spin it any way you want to but that will always remain the case.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  4. #54
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
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  5. #55
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Ummmm Nah! Margin of error occurs in statistics not in a vote count. 540,000 more popular votes than an opponent obtained makes that man the winner in an election decided by popular vote.

    Spin it any way you want to but that will always remain the case.
    A vote count on that scale is statistics. Out of over a hundred million votes counted, we can know that there are unavoidably going to be some errors in the result. That 540,000 vote difference looks like a big number, but it's about half of a percent of the total votes counted. I do not think that it is anywhere close to reasonable to assume that the official popular vote count is accurate to within half a percent. Keep in mind that as the popular vote has no legal standing, there is no reason why great pains would have been taken to assure that level of accuracy on the national scale. It was the electoral vote that counted. Each state needed to make sure that its electors were chosen correctly, and only in Florida was there enough of a dispute to make a detailed examination necessary. The official difference in Florida's vote between Bush and Gore comes to about 0.009 of a percent, and, of course, there are still those who dispute this result.
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  6. #56
    Why so serious?

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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Xsnake1 View Post
    If we get rid of the electoral system, candidates will be forced to focus on all states instead of just swing states
    No, they would focus on the largest population centers and ignore everything else.
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  7. #57
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    No, they would focus on the largest population centers and ignore everything else.
    They do that now
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  8. #58
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Xsnake1 View Post
    They do that now
    Would you like to see it increase dramatically? Yes, more populated states receive a great deal more electoral votes. However, once you remove those states with their single-digit numbers, you're looking at incredibly little incentive.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 08-07-13 at 06:58 PM.
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  9. #59
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    A vote count on that scale is statistics. Out of over a hundred million votes counted, we can know that there are unavoidably going to be some errors in the result. That 540,000 vote difference looks like a big number, but it's about half of a percent of the total votes counted. I do not think that it is anywhere close to reasonable to assume that the official popular vote count is accurate to within half a percent. Keep in mind that as the popular vote has no legal standing, there is no reason why great pains would have been taken to assure that level of accuracy on the national scale. It was the electoral vote that counted. Each state needed to make sure that its electors were chosen correctly, and only in Florida was there enough of a dispute to make a detailed examination necessary. The official difference in Florida's vote between Bush and Gore comes to about 0.009 of a percent, and, of course, there are still those who dispute this result.
    Who cares about "difference in Florida's vote" when we are discussing the difference between maintaining the Electoral College or changing to a popular vote. THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS THREAD CONCERNS A QUESTION OF HOW THE PRESIDENT SHOULD BE ELECTED!! Those of us who support direct election via popular vote see the latest example of it's failure as a valid reason for eliminating the Electoral College. The wrong man won!

    Besides, who are you trying to kid? 540,000 votes is not some "statistical" issue. It is something that can be accurately counted, vote by vote. There will not be that many "erroneous votes" in a 540,000 vote majority; a person receiving that many will still be the popular vote winner.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  10. #60
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Would you like to see it increase dramatically? Yes, more populated states receive a great deal more electoral votes. However, once you remove those states with their single-digit numbers, you're looking at incredibly little incentive.
    Not what I think he meant. The Presidential candidates only reserve their attention for the population centers in the swing states.

    253 election campaign events:
    The electoral college-figure-9-1-2012-swing-states-jpg

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