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Thread: The electoral college

  1. #211
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by mvymvy View Post
    80% of the states have been merely spectators to presidential elections.
    What the hell do you think they will be if there was a big pooled together national popular vote?? Just as many, if not more, would not matter.

    I did not bother reading the rest of your wall of text which is clearly cut and paste propaganda.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  2. #212
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by mvymvy View Post
    The indefensible reality is that more than 99% of campaign attention was showered on voters in just ten states
    That you want more states 'showered' with attention might be considered cruel by some. "Oh gee, how great! Now I get bombarded with lying ad's from both sides all day and night! Yipee!" ...
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  3. #213
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    I am against changing it, as we see more and more examples of uninformed voters... no way in hell I want them in charge of things. DC is bad enough now.
    The National Popular Vote bill would end the disproportionate attention and influence of the "mob" in the current handful of closely divided battleground states, such as Ohio and Florida, while the "mobs" of the vast majority of states are ignored. 9 states determined the 2012 election. 10 of the original 13 states are politically irrelevant in presidential campaigns now.

    With the current state-by-state winner-take-all system of awarding electoral votes, it could only take winning a bare plurality of popular votes in the 11 most populous states, containing 56% of the population of the United States, for a candidate to win the Presidency with a mere 23% of the nation's votes!

    The current system does not provide some kind of check on the "mobs." There have been 22,991 electoral votes cast since presidential elections became competitive (in 1796), and only 17 have been cast for someone other than the candidate nominated by the elector's own political party. 1796 remains the only instance when the elector might have thought, at the time he voted, that his vote might affect the national outcome. Since 1796, the Electoral College has had the form, but not the substance, of the deliberative body envisioned by the Founders. The electors now are dedicated party activists of the winning party who meet briefly in mid-December to cast their totally predictable rubberstamped votes in accordance with their pre-announced pledges.

    If a Democratic presidential candidate receives the most votes, the state's dedicated Democratic party activists who have been chosen as its slate of electors become the Electoral College voting bloc. If a Republican presidential candidate receives the most votes, the state's dedicated Republican party activists who have been chosen as its slate of electors become the Electoral College voting bloc. The winner of the presidential election is the candidate who collects 270 votes from Electoral College voters from among the winning party's dedicated activists.

    The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld state laws guaranteeing faithful voting by presidential electors (because the states have plenary power over presidential electors).

  4. #214
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    That you want more states 'showered' with attention might be considered cruel by some. "Oh gee, how great! Now I get bombarded with lying ad's from both sides all day and night! Yipee!" ...
    Presidential candidates currently do everything within their power to raise as much money as they possibly can from donors throughout the country. They then allocate their time and the money that they raise nationally to places where it will do the most good toward their goal of winning the election.

    Candidates would spend their money more broadly (that is, in all 50 states and DC).

    If every vote mattered throughout the United States, as it would under a national popular vote, candidates would reallocate their time and the money they raise.

  5. #215
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    What the hell do you think they will be if there was a big pooled together national popular vote?? Just as many, if not more, would not matter.

    I did not bother reading the rest of your wall of text which is clearly cut and paste propaganda.
    Political reality, that every gubernatorial or senatorial candidate knows, is that when and where every vote is equal, a campaign must be run everywhere.

  6. #216
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    That you want more states 'showered' with attention might be considered cruel by some. "Oh gee, how great! Now I get bombarded with lying ad's from both sides all day and night! Yipee!" ...
    For me, the issue isn't about which states should receive advertising, and whether or not that's a good thing

    It's about whether it is good for our national policies to be influenced by the need to kowtow to one specific states interests, even if those interests are not in the nations best interests.

    Take ethanol from corn, for example. It's not a great idea, but it's going to be hard to get politicians to be against it when it's in Iowa's interest to have it supported with govt subsidies.
    Last edited by sangha; 08-09-13 at 04:50 PM.
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    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
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  7. #217
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    For me, the issue isn't about which states should receive advertising, and whether or not that's a good thing

    It's about whether it is good for our national policies to be influenced by the need to kowtow to one specific states interests, even if those interests are not in the nations best interests.

    Take ethanol from corn, for example. It's not a great idea, but it's going to be hard to get politicians to be against it's in Iowa's interest to have it supported with govt subsidies.
    Exactly.

    The number and population of battleground states is shrinking.

    Policies important to the citizens of non-battleground states are not as highly prioritized as policies important to the handful of ‘battleground’ states when it comes to governing.

    Charlie Cook reported in 2004:
    “Senior Bush campaign strategist Matthew Dowd pointed out yesterday that the Bush campaign hadn’t taken a national poll in almost two years; instead, it has been polling [in the then] 18 battleground states.” [only 10 in 2012]

    In apportionment of federal grants by the executive branch, swing states received about 7.6% more federal grants and about 5.7% more federal grant money between 1992 and 2008 than would be expected based on patterns in other states.

    During the course of campaigns, candidates are educated and campaign about the local, regional, and state issues most important to the handful of battleground states they need to win. They take this knowledge and prioritization with them once they are elected. Candidates need to be educated and care about all of our states.

    Compare the response to hurricane Katrina (in Louisiana, a "safe" state) to the federal response to hurricanes in Florida (a "swing" state) under Presidents of both parties. President Obama took more interest in the BP oil spill, once it reached Florida's shores, after it had first reached Louisiana. Some pandering policy examples include ethanol subsidies, Steel Tariffs, and Medicare Part D. Policies not given priority, include those most important to non-battleground states - like water issues in the west, and Pacific Rim trade issues.

    “Maybe it is just a coincidence that most of the battleground states decided by razor-thin margins in 2008 have been blessed with a No Child Left Behind exemption. “ – Wall Street Journal , June 5, 2012

    As of June 7, 2012 “Six current heavily traveled Cabinet members, have made more than 85 trips this year to electoral battlegrounds such as Colorado, Florida, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio and Pennsylvania, according to a POLITICO review of public speeches and news clippings. Those swing-state visits represent roughly half of all travel for those six Cabinet officials this year.”

  8. #218
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by mvymvy View Post
    Political advertisement deleted.
    Who do you work for?
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  9. #219
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by mvymvy View Post
    Follow the money.

    The indefensible reality is that more than 99% of campaign attention was showered on voters in just ten states in 2012- and that in today's political climate, the swing states that decide the presidency have become increasingly fewer and fixed.
    This is due to primaries being scattered though out several months instead of just being on the same day all across the country. Which is why I favor primaries being held on the same day all across the country just like the main presidential election is held on the same day all across the country.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  10. #220
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    This is due to primaries being scattered though out several months instead of just being on the same day all across the country. Which is why I favor primaries being held on the same day all across the country just like the main presidential election is held on the same day all across the country.
    It's not due to the primaries.

    The current state-by-state winner-take-all method of awarding electoral votes (not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, but since enacted by 48 states), ensures that the candidates, after the conventions, will not reach out to about 80% of the states and their voters. Candidates have no reason to poll, visit, advertise, organize, campaign, or care about the voter concerns in the dozens of states where they are safely ahead or hopelessly behind.

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