View Poll Results: How should presidents be elected

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Thread: The electoral college

  1. #161
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I support the electoral college.I do not want California,New York and a few other extremely populated states making decisions for the whole entire country.
    I live in New York and I don't want the liberals making decisions for the entire state in national elections
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  2. #162
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    You have no idea what you are talking about.
    Quite a senseless rant you have going there. No doubt driven by you living in a location that is overpopulated. I've always heard such overcrowding can cause psychosis.
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  3. #163
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    Re: The electoral college

    Though both popular vote and electoral college are both actions of democracy, only the electoral college protects Federalism.
    Federalism- A system of government in which power is divided between a central authority and constituent political units. It is essential to liberty for all. The concept is not respected on the left and the right has become in recent years more pragmatic in their approach to the need for and the restoring of Federalism.

  4. #164
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Though both popular vote and electoral college are both actions of democracy, only the electoral college protects Federalism.
    Federalism- A system of government in which power is divided between a central authority and constituent political units. It is essential to liberty for all. The concept is not respected on the left and the right has become in recent years more pragmatic in their approach to the need for and the restoring of Federalism.
    And just how does the Electoral College accomplish this goal?
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  5. #165
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Xsnake1 View Post
    I live in New York and I don't want the liberals making decisions for the entire state in national elections
    Then you probably shouldn't be living in states where there is a large city that votes Democrat.

  6. #166
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And just how does the Electoral College accomplish this goal?
    As structured now, it doesn't. due to winner take all in most states It was intended to mimic the makeup of Congress as there was not a way at the time to have an accurate way of collecting votes on a national scale...
    I don't often change my signature, but this was just too over the top to let anyone forget with what this country is up against...
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    I am for gay marriage because it ticks off Jesus freaks and social conservatives. Gays are also good voters because the vote for my side so I fight next to them.

  7. #167
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Though both popular vote and electoral college are both actions of democracy, only the electoral college protects Federalism.
    Federalism- A system of government in which power is divided between a central authority and constituent political units. It is essential to liberty for all. The concept is not respected on the left and the right has become in recent years more pragmatic in their approach to the need for and the restoring of Federalism.
    With the Electoral College and federalism, the Founding Fathers meant to empower the states to pursue their own interests within the confines of the Constitution. The National Popular Vote is an exercise of that power, not an attack upon it.

    The Electoral College is now the set of 538 dedicated party activists who vote as rubberstamps for their party’s presidential candidate. That is not what the Founders intended.

    During the course of campaigns, candidates are educated and campaign about the local, regional, and state issues most important to the handful of battleground states they need to win. They take this knowledge and prioritization with them once they are elected. Candidates need to be educated and care about all of our states.

    The current 48 state-by-state winner-take-all method (i.e., awarding all of a state's electoral votes to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in a particular state) is not entitled to any special deference based on history or the historical meaning of the words in the U.S. Constitution. It is not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, the debates of the Constitutional Convention, or the Federalist Papers. The actions taken by the Founding Fathers make it clear that they never gave their imprimatur to the winner-take-all method.

    80% of the states and people were just spectators to the presidential election. That's more than 85 million voters, 200 million Americans.

    Policies important to the citizens of non-battleground states are not as highly prioritized as policies important to ‘battleground’ states when it comes to governing.

    Since World War II, a shift of a few thousand votes in one or two states would have elected the second-place candidate in 4 of the 15 presidential elections

    The National Popular Vote bill preserves the Electoral College and state control of elections. It changes the way electoral votes are awarded in the Electoral College.

    Under National Popular Vote, every vote, everywhere, would be politically relevant and equal in every presidential election. Every vote would be included in the state counts and national count. When states with a combined total of at least 270 electoral votes enact the bill, the candidate with the most popular votes in all 50 states and DC would get the needed majority of 270+ electoral votes from the enacting states. The bill would thus guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes.

    States have the responsibility and power to make all of their voters relevant in every presidential election and beyond.

    Unable to agree on any particular method, the Founding Fathers left the choice of method for selecting presidential electors exclusively to the states by adopting the language contained in section 1 of Article II of the U.S. Constitution-- "Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors . . ." The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly characterized the authority of the state legislatures over the manner of awarding their electoral votes as "plenary" and "exclusive."

    Federalism concerns the allocation of power between state governments and the national government. The National Popular Vote bill concerns how votes are tallied, not how much power state governments possess relative to the national government. The powers of state governments are neither increased nor decreased based on whether presidential electors are selected along the state boundary lines, or national lines (as with the National Popular Vote).

  8. #168
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    Then you probably shouldn't be living in states where there is a large city that votes Democrat.
    If big cities controlled the outcome of elections, the governors and U.S. Senators would be Democratic in virtually every state with a significant city.

    Even in California state-wide elections, candidates for governor or U.S. Senate don't campaign just in Los Angeles and San Francisco, and those places don't control the outcome (otherwise California wouldn't have recently had Republican governors Reagan, Dukemejian, Wilson, and Schwarzenegger). A vote in rural Alpine county is just an important as a vote in Los Angeles. If Los Angeles cannot control statewide elections in California, it can hardly control a nationwide election.

    In fact, Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Jose, and Oakland together cannot control a statewide election in California.

    Similarly, Republicans dominate Texas politics without carrying big cities such as Dallas and Houston.

    There are numerous other examples of Republicans who won races for governor and U.S. Senator in other states that have big cities (e.g., New York, Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Massachusetts) without ever carrying the big cities of their respective states.

    With a national popular vote, every vote everywhere will be equally important politically. There will be nothing special about a vote cast in a big city or big state. When every vote is equal, candidates of both parties will seek out voters in small, medium, and large towns throughout the states in order to win. A vote cast in a big city or state will be equal to a vote cast in a small state, town, or rural area.

  9. #169
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I support the electoral college.I do not want California,New York and a few other extremely populated states making decisions for the whole entire country.
    With the current state-by-state winner-take-all system of awarding electoral votes, it could only take winning a bare plurality of popular votes in the 11 most populous states, containing 56% of the population of the United States, for a candidate to win the Presidency with a mere 23% of the nation's votes!

    But the political reality is that the 11 largest states rarely agree on any political question. In terms of recent presidential elections, the 11 largest states include five "red states (Texas, Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, and Georgia) and six "blue" states (California, New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and New Jersey). The fact is that the big states are just about as closely divided as the rest of the country. For example, among the four largest states, the two largest Republican states (Texas and Florida) generated a total margin of 2.1 million votes for Bush, while the two largest Democratic states generated a total margin of 2.1 million votes for Kerry.

    In 2004, among the 11 most populous states, in the seven non-battleground states, % of winning party, and margin of “wasted” popular votes, from among the total 122 Million votes cast nationally:
    * Texas (62% Republican), 1,691,267
    * New York (59% Democratic), 1,192,436
    * Georgia (58% Republican), 544,634
    * North Carolina (56% Republican), 426,778
    * California (55% Democratic), 1,023,560
    * Illinois (55% Democratic), 513,342
    * New Jersey (53% Democratic), 211,826

    To put these numbers in perspective, Oklahoma (7 electoral votes) alone generated a margin of 455,000 "wasted" votes for Bush in 2004 -- larger than the margin generated by the 9th and 10th largest states, namely New Jersey and North Carolina (each with 15 electoral votes). Utah (5 electoral votes) alone generated a margin of 385,000 "wasted" votes for Bush in 2004. 8 small western states, with less than a third of California’s population, provided Bush with a bigger margin (1,283,076) than California provided Kerry (1,235,659).

  10. #170
    Angry Former GOP Voter
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    Re: The electoral college

    The most ridiculous thing is that we were responding to a walking RSS feed or one of those robotic "internet chicks" that randomly messaged you on your IM client.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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