View Poll Results: How should presidents be elected

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Thread: The electoral college

  1. #131
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    Re: The electoral college

    Due to the combination of common demographics in certain areas (i.e.: urban liberal vs rural conservative, as one example) and advances in polls and predicting, the size of the state has become pretty much irrelevant. Small or large doesn't matter anymore, and said arguments have been reduced to red herrings... which, unfortunately, too many people still fall for. This is evidenced by the largest prize, California, getting only a couple token visits by candidates in the last few elections because the outcome in California was a fait accompli. The only states paid any real attention are the swings states, those close enough to actually make a difference in a tight race.

    The candidates and their campaign staff know this, and play to it.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  2. #132
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    Re: The electoral college

    The Constitution allows states to decide, and states are not even required to hold elections at all for President, so it is unlikely you are going to get enough of states to be willing to give up what little power they have to the the autocratic oligarchy that is Washington DC so direct elections simply are not going to happen no matter how better or more fair people think it would be.

  3. #133
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    I updated my comment.

    And I don't understand your comment.
    You said that someone can get elected with 20-25% of the votes, which has never happened. I say that you can get elected with 20 (whole number) votes. Both silly scenarios.

  4. #134
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    The Constitution allows states to decide, and states are not even required to hold elections at all for President, so it is unlikely you are going to get enough of states to be willing to give up what little power they have to the the autocratic oligarchy that is Washington DC so direct elections simply are not going to happen no matter how better or more fair people think it would be.
    The current state-by-state winner-take-all method of awarding electoral votes (not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, but since enacted by 48 states), ensures that the candidates, after the conventions, will not reach out to about 80% of the states and their voters. Candidates have no reason to poll, visit, advertise, organize, campaign, or care about the voter concerns in the dozens of states where they are safely ahead or hopelessly behind.

    Policies important to the citizens of non-battleground states are not as highly prioritized as policies important to ‘battleground’ states when it comes to governing.

    States have the responsibility and power to make all of their voters relevant in every presidential election and beyond.

    National Popular Vote is not direct elections. Under National Popular Vote, every vote, everywhere, would be politically relevant and equal in every presidential election. Every vote would be included in the state counts and national count.

    When states with a combined total of at least 270 electoral votes enact the bill, the candidate with the most popular votes in all 50 states and DC would get the needed majority of 270+ Electoral College votes from the enacting states. The bill would thus guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes.

    The National Popular Vote bill concerns how votes are tallied, not how much power state governments possess relative to the national government. The powers of state governments are neither increased nor decreased based on whether presidential electors are selected along the state boundary lines, or national lines (as with the National Popular Vote).

    In Gallup polls since 1944, only about 20% of the public has supported the current system of awarding all of a state's electoral votes to the presidential candidate who receives the most votes in each separate state (with about 70% opposed and about 10% undecided).

    Support for a national popular vote is strong among Republicans, Democrats, and Independent voters, as well as every demographic group in virtually every state surveyed in recent polls in recent closely divided Battleground states: CO – 68%, FL – 78%, IA 75%, MI – 73%, MO – 70%, NH – 69%, NV – 72%, NM– 76%, NC – 74%, OH – 70%, PA – 78%, VA – 74%, and WI – 71%; in Small states (3 to 5 electoral votes): AK – 70%, DC – 76%, DE – 75%, ID – 77%, ME – 77%, MT – 72%, NE 74%, NH – 69%, NV – 72%, NM – 76%, OK – 81%, RI – 74%, SD – 71%, UT – 70%, VT – 75%, WV – 81%, and WY – 69%; in Southern and Border states: AR – 80%, KY- 80%, MS – 77%, MO – 70%, NC – 74%, OK – 81%, SC – 71%, TN – 83%, VA – 74%, and WV – 81%; and in other states polled: AZ – 67%, CA – 70%, CT – 74%, MA – 73%, MN – 75%, NY – 79%, OR – 76%, and WA – 77%.
    Americans believe that the candidate who receives the most votes should win.

    More than 2,110 state legislators (in 50 states) have sponsored and/or cast recorded votes in favor of the National Popular Vote bill.

    The bill has passed 32 state legislative chambers in 21 states with 243 electoral votes.

    The bill has been enacted by 10 jurisdictions with 136 electoral votes – 50.4% of the 270 necessary to go into effect.

    NationalPopularVote
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  5. #135
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    The Constitution allows states to decide, and states are not even required to hold elections at all for President, so it is unlikely you are going to get enough of states to be willing to give up what little power they have to the the autocratic oligarchy that is Washington DC so direct elections simply are not going to happen no matter how better or more fair people think it would be.
    A compact effectively making it a direct election already has half the electoral votes necessary.
    There should be Instant Runoff Voting

  6. #136
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    . . . If my state goes for candidate A but because of that pledge, the states electors go to candidate B, then my voice truly is not being heard--and neither is the voice of anyone in my state.
    Under National Popular Vote, every vote, everywhere, would be politically relevant and equal in every presidential election. Every vote would be included in the state counts and national count.

    When states with a combined total of at least 270 electoral votes enact the bill, the candidate with the most popular votes in all 50 states and DC would get the needed majority of 270+ electoral votes from the enacting states. The bill would thus guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes.

    National Popular Vote would give a voice to the minority party voters in each state. Now their votes are counted only for the candidate they did not vote for. Now they don't matter to their candidate. In 2012, 56,256,178 (44%) of the 128,954,498 voters had their vote diverted by the winner-take-all rule to a candidate they opposed (namely, their state’s first-place candidate).

    And now votes, beyond the one needed to get the most votes in the state, for winning in a state are wasted and don't matter to candidates. Utah (5 electoral votes) alone generated a margin of 385,000 "wasted" votes for Bush in 2004. 8 small western states, with less than a third of California’s population, provided Bush with a bigger margin (1,283,076) than California provided Kerry (1,235,659).

    With National Popular Vote, elections wouldn't be about winning states. No more distorting and divisive red and blue state maps. Every vote, everywhere would be counted equally for, and directly assist, the candidate for whom it was cast.

    Most Americans don't care whether their presidential candidate wins or loses in their state . . . they care whether he/she wins the White House. Voters want to know, that even if they were on the losing side, their vote actually was directly and equally counted and mattered to their candidate. Most Americans think it's wrong for the candidate with the most popular votes to lose. We don't allow this in any other election in our representative republic.

    In state polls of voters each with a second question that specifically emphasized that their state's electoral votes would be awarded to the winner of the national popular vote in all 50 states, not necessarily their state's winner, there was only a 4-8% decrease of support.

    Question 1: "How do you think we should elect the President: Should it be the candidate who gets the most votes in all 50 states, or the current Electoral College system?"

    Question 2: "Do you think it more important that a state's electoral votes be cast for the presidential candidate who receives the most popular votes in that state, or is it more important to guarantee that the candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states becomes president?"

    Support for a National Popular Vote
    South Dakota -- 75% for Question 1, 67% for Question 2.
    Connecticut -- 74% for Question 1, 68% for Question 2.
    Utah -- 70% for Question 1, 66% for Question 2.

    Candidates would need to care about voters across the nation, not just undecided voters in a handful of swing states. The political reality would be that when every vote is equal, the campaign must be run in every part of the country.

    When and where voters matter, then so do the issues they care about most.

    NationalPopularVote

  7. #137
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    A compact effectively making it a direct election already has half the electoral votes necessary.
    But compacts are agreements, not law and it has "Almost half" because it is CA and a few other blue states. The first time that would require a state to cast its ballots in direct opposition to how the people in the state voted, it would be toast.

  8. #138
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    But compacts are agreements, not law and it has "Almost half" because it is CA and a few other blue states. The first time that would require a state to cast its ballots in direct opposition to how the people in the state voted, it would be toast.
    Hopefully.
    There should be Instant Runoff Voting

  9. #139
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by mvymvy View Post
    The current state-by-state winner-take-all method of awarding electoral votes (not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, but since enacted by 48 states), ensures that the candidates, after the conventions, will not reach out to about 80% of the states and their voters. Candidates have no reason to poll, visit, advertise, organize, campaign, or care about the voter concerns in the dozens of states where they are safely ahead or hopelessly behind.

    Policies important to the citizens of non-battleground states are not as highly prioritized as policies important to ‘battleground’ states when it comes to governing.

    States have the responsibility and power to make all of their voters relevant in every presidential election and beyond.

    National Popular Vote is not direct elections. Under National Popular Vote, every vote, everywhere, would be politically relevant and equal in every presidential election. Every vote would be included in the state counts and national count.

    When states with a combined total of at least 270 electoral votes enact the bill, the candidate with the most popular votes in all 50 states and DC would get the needed majority of 270+ Electoral College votes from the enacting states. The bill would thus guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes.

    The National Popular Vote bill concerns how votes are tallied, not how much power state governments possess relative to the national government. The powers of state governments are neither increased nor decreased based on whether presidential electors are selected along the state boundary lines, or national lines (as with the National Popular Vote).

    In Gallup polls since 1944, only about 20% of the public has supported the current system of awarding all of a state's electoral votes to the presidential candidate who receives the most votes in each separate state (with about 70% opposed and about 10% undecided).

    Support for a national popular vote is strong among Republicans, Democrats, and Independent voters, as well as every demographic group in virtually every state surveyed in recent polls in recent closely divided Battleground states: CO – 68%, FL – 78%, IA 75%, MI – 73%, MO – 70%, NH – 69%, NV – 72%, NM– 76%, NC – 74%, OH – 70%, PA – 78%, VA – 74%, and WI – 71%; in Small states (3 to 5 electoral votes): AK – 70%, DC – 76%, DE – 75%, ID – 77%, ME – 77%, MT – 72%, NE 74%, NH – 69%, NV – 72%, NM – 76%, OK – 81%, RI – 74%, SD – 71%, UT – 70%, VT – 75%, WV – 81%, and WY – 69%; in Southern and Border states: AR – 80%, KY- 80%, MS – 77%, MO – 70%, NC – 74%, OK – 81%, SC – 71%, TN – 83%, VA – 74%, and WV – 81%; and in other states polled: AZ – 67%, CA – 70%, CT – 74%, MA – 73%, MN – 75%, NY – 79%, OR – 76%, and WA – 77%.
    Americans believe that the candidate who receives the most votes should win.

    More than 2,110 state legislators (in 50 states) have sponsored and/or cast recorded votes in favor of the National Popular Vote bill.

    The bill has passed 32 state legislative chambers in 21 states with 243 electoral votes.

    The bill has been enacted by 10 jurisdictions with 136 electoral votes – 50.4% of the 270 necessary to go into effect.

    NationalPopularVote
    Follow National Popular Vote on Facebook via NationalPopularVoteInc
    Doesn't change you would still need to get it put on the ballot as a Constitutional amendment and passed by 2/3's of the states, including all those that are "disenfranchising" people anyway. Politicians are not giving up power no matter what a freaking poll says. It is unrealistic.

  10. #140
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    The electoral college . . . now it serves to balance power between fly over country and the seaboards. I say it remains useful.
    "Fly over" country is flown over. IGNORED. That's what it means.

    80% of the states and people have been merely spectators to presidential elections. They have no influence. That's more than 85 million voters, 200 million Americans, ignored. When and where voters are ignored, then so are the issues they care about most.

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