View Poll Results: How should presidents be elected

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Thread: The electoral college

  1. #111
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    My God you guys have a complicated system of government. Sounds like the whole thing was designed by lawyers.
    Is anyone in the USA comfortable that their system is working properly?
    Is anyone in the world comfortable that their particular system works properly?
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  2. #112
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by mvymvy View Post
    For states seeking to exercise their responsibility under the U.S. Constitution to choose a method of allocating electoral votes that best serves their state’s interest and that of the national interest, the proportional method falls far short of the National Popular Vote plan. The proportional method fails to promote majority rule, greater competitiveness, or voter equality.

    The whole number proportional system sharply increases the odds of no candidate getting the majority of electoral votes needed, leading to the selection of the president by the U.S. House of Representatives.
    I wouldn't say sharply. Even when Ross Perot got 20% of the vote in 1992 Clinton would've only been 3 votes short from avoiding that. I wouldn't want someone who won any smaller of a plurality than that to be elected president anyway without sending it to the House or having a runoff.
    The Electoral College is now the set of 538 dedicated party activists who vote as rubberstamps for presidential candidates. In the current presidential election system, 48 states award all of their electors to the winners of their state.

    With National Popular Vote, the Electoral College still would vote as rubberstamps for presidential candidates.

    National Popular Vote guarantees the presidency to the candidate with the most popular votes in the country.
    Voters want that guarantee, that even if they were on the losing side, their vote actually was directly and equally counted and mattered to their candidate. Most Americans think it's a bad thing for the candidate with the most popular votes to lose. We don't allow this in any other election in our representative republic.

    Support for a national popular vote is strong among Republicans, Democrats, and Independent voters, as well as every demographic group in virtually every state surveyed in recent polls in recent closely divided Battleground states: CO – 68%, FL – 78%, IA 75%, MI – 73%, MO – 70%, NH – 69%, NV – 72%, NM– 76%, NC – 74%, OH – 70%, PA – 78%, VA – 74%, and WI – 71%; in Small states (3 to 5 electoral votes): AK – 70%, DC – 76%, DE – 75%, ID – 77%, ME – 77%, MT – 72%, NE 74%, NH – 69%, NV – 72%, NM – 76%, OK – 81%, RI – 74%, SD – 71%, UT – 70%, VT – 75%, WV – 81%, and WY – 69%; in Southern and Border states: AR – 80%, KY- 80%, MS – 77%, MO – 70%, NC – 74%, OK – 81%, SC – 71%, TN – 83%, VA – 74%, and WV – 81%; and in other states polled: AZ – 67%, CA – 70%, CT – 74%, MA – 73%, MN – 75%, NY – 79%, OR – 76%, and WA – 77%.

    Even if all 50 states and DC used a proportional method, the presidency would not be guaranteed to the candidate with the most votes. Voters do not want any possibility of an electoral vote tie leaving Congress (with less than 10% approval rating now) to decide a presidential election, with each state having one vote, (with equally divided states being unable to cast a vote).
    To be honest I don't care what most Americans want. If they want to make the President elected by popular vote, by all means let them, but I still don't think it is the best system.

    A constitutional amendment to change all states to a proportional method could be stopped by states with as little as 3% of the U.S. population.
    I'm not suggesting a constitutional amendment.

    A compact, such as you're suggesting, to have ANY chance of succeeding, would need a trigger of all 50 states and DC enacting it before it would go into effect.
    Yes I said it wasn't particularly feasible, just that it would be the best system. I prefer the current system to a national popular vote as well.

    National Popular Vote is what Americans want. It only requires states with 270 electoral votes to enact it, before going into effect, and it guarantees what most Americans want -- the candidate with the most votes will win, as in virtually every other election in the country.
    Again, I don't really care what most Americans want. The presidency is different than every other election in the country. The president is not elected by the people at large, and IMO that is the way it should be.
    There should be Instant Runoff Voting

  3. #113
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    Re: The electoral college

    The Founders generally held democracy in contempt, and you don't live in one. You get that, right?

    You live in a federated democratic republic, which is very different.

    Did you have some desire to live in a province of California? Or of New York? Or of Florida?

    Because without the Electoral College, and by extension, one must assume that you don't like the Senate either, that's what the less populated States will become.

    As I've said before, a great example of a democracy is a gang rape. The victim gets one vote, and each assailant gets one vote on a course of action.
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  4. #114
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post


    As I've said before, a great example of a democracy is a gang rape. The victim gets one vote, and each assailant gets one vote on a course of action.
    dude...that has got to be one of the best descriptions of "democracy" that I have ever heard.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  5. #115
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    Re: The electoral college

    The electoral college was an attempt by the founders to balance power between the densely populated industrial north and the sparsely populated agricultural south. Populations have shifted to the coasts so now it serves to balance power between fly over country and the seaboards. I say it remains useful.

  6. #116
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by sawdust View Post
    The electoral college was an attempt by the founders to balance power between the densely populated industrial north and the sparsely populated agricultural south. Populations have shifted to the coasts so now it serves to balance power between fly over country and the seaboards. I say it remains useful.
    exactly......
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  7. #117
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Is anyone in the world comfortable that their particular system works properly?
    Varying degrees, I guess.
    I just don't understand the reasons for the 'electoral college' thing. Maybe I should read this whole thread, there's probably an explanation in there somewhere. Must have something to do with being 'united states' instead of a federal republic.

  8. #118
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Xsnake1 View Post
    The idea of the electoral college is the perfect example of "democracy" gone wrong. Presidents should be elected based on the popular vote, not the electoral vote. I want the president that more people voted for, not the one that was supported by bigger states. I live in a blue state and I'm Republican which means when I vote, my vote just gets thrown away and I'm forced to support the democrat because that's who more people in the state vote for. Even if one person wins the popular vote which would mean the majority wants that person, the person that less people want can still win the electoral vote and then we're stuck with him/her. The electoral college is just pure stupidity and it should be abolished.
    We are not a democracy. And to be quite honest, pure democracy does not work. It is a mob rule. Unacceptable practice with unacceptable outcomes.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  9. #119
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Varying degrees, I guess.
    I just don't understand the reasons for the 'electoral college' thing. Maybe I should read this whole thread, there's probably an explanation in there somewhere. Must have something to do with being 'united states' instead of a federal republic.
    Personally, I go back and forth regarding the EC. I used to oppose it, but since I've been here I have come to realize that it does indeed have value and legitimate purpose. This particular thread has been relatively weak in justifying it, though. There have been other threads in the past that have done a better job.
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  10. #120
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Varying degrees, I guess.
    I just don't understand the reasons for the 'electoral college' thing. Maybe I should read this whole thread, there's probably an explanation in there somewhere. Must have something to do with being 'united states' instead of a federal republic.
    In the early years, it provided an incentive to candidates to visit different states during their campaign and attempt to address their issues accordingly.

    Now, thanks to the effectiveness of voter sampling and the resultant polls, all the electoral college seems to ensure is that they will spend lots of time in Ohio.

    It is an anacronism that has outlived its usefulness, especially as it gives the voters of the less populous states more voting clout per capita than it does the larger.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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