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Thread: The electoral college

  1. #101
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    US Senators are not supposed to represent the people directly but rather the state governments, which are in theory equals regardless of differing populations.
    It used to be more than theory until the 17th Amendment was passed.
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  2. #102
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I am seriously making that argument.

    Your claim that the president can affect the states is true, and I've said nothing to the contrary. However, the president makes decisions on the basis of how it affects the nation, and should not be considering it's effect on one individual state, or giving those effects an undue influence on his policies because the state has disproportionate political power.

    And I never said that a state should not consider the impact a president can have upon their state. They can consider it all they want. I'm just saying that the president should not be coerced into giving that state undue influence due to its' having electoral power disproportionate to its' size and population

    And yes, I know what the small states wanted. However, the reason why their wants were addressed was in order to persuade them to join the union. Now that they've ratified the constitution, and have enjoyed the benefits of their advantage for two centuries, I see no reason why we should not consider the matter settled, and revoke that advantage.
    All you are asking is that the President consider the minority to a much lesser degree. That is irresponsible decision-making. Why should the most populated states essentially be the only ones that get the ear to the President and the federal government when the public policies affect everyone? Our leaders need additional incentives to consider the minority so that the majority does not completely dominate the government from top to bottom. By removing their electoral power and their representative strength, all you do is anger them, and deprive them of a voice. Those problems do not go away once they join the Union.

    Frankly, when I hear people from big states complain about this, to me it reminds me of certain individuals who want to gobble up all the slices of the pie instead of sacrificing one, maybe 2 slices for those that don't get much to eat during dinner.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 08-08-13 at 12:25 AM.
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  3. #103
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    Re: The electoral college

    Yeah, I'm not a fan of the electoral college. I don't see why my vote should count for 1/10 of the vote from some guy in Iowa. I'd love to see it gone, but the guy in Iowa whose vote is worth ten times my vote would never let it fly. Nor would his neighbors. Chances to ratify a constitutional amendment is nil. People like having more power that others. Nobody will willingly give that up.

  4. #104
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    All you are asking is that the President consider the minority to a much lesser degree. That is irresponsible decision-making. Why should the most populated states essentially be the only ones that get the ear to the President and the federal government when the public policies affect everyone? Our leaders need additional incentives to consider the minority so that the majority does not completely dominate the government from top to bottom. By removing their electoral power and their representative strength, all you do is anger them, and deprive them of a voice. Those problems do not go away once they join the Union.
    Yes, I want the smaller states to have a smaller amount of influence in setting national policy. That is not the same as saying they should have no influence, as you imply.
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    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
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  5. #105
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Yes, I want the smaller states to have a smaller amount of influence in setting national policy. That is not the same as saying they should have no influence, as you imply.
    So, can we agree that as it stands right now, smaller states have little influence in the national pull of Presidential campaigns or in Congressional legislation? Then you want to decrease that even further, because it is more democratic, more one man=one vote?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  6. #106
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    Re: The electoral college

    I vote hybrid. Electoral college BUT a 50% + 1 vote requirement to be elected.

    My reasoning is that if you know there will be a runoff election because 3rd party candidates siphon off votes and prevent either candidate from reaching 50, you can make a statement vote in the first election and then a compromise vote in the second. I think it would give 3rd party candidates a fighting chance.
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  7. #107
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    Re: The electoral college

    My God you guys have a complicated system of government. Sounds like the whole thing was designed by lawyers.
    Is anyone in the USA comfortable that their system is working properly?

  8. #108
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    My God you guys have a complicated system of government. Sounds like the whole thing was designed by lawyers.
    It was. We still have more lawyers in government than most nations. Though, I would say that the one that seemed to intimidate me the most was monarchical France...well, that is unless someone that is French can say that it is still just as complicated.

    Is anyone in the USA comfortable that their system is working properly?
    You will frequently come across broad-stroke complaints, but with more careful thought or just through the consequences of enormous change, they would probably find out that it works decently or well as it exists.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  9. #109
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    It was. We still have more lawyers in government than most nations. Though, I would say that the one that seemed to intimidate me the most was monarchical France...well, that is unless someone that is French can say that it is still just as complicated.
    It's not just the designers. It's the design. Why would the people in a country that calls itself a democracy not be able to vote for the president?
    You guys need to decide whether you're a republic or a united states.



    You will frequently come across broad-stroke complaints, but with more careful thought or just through the consequences of enormous change, they would probably find out that it works decently or well as it exists.[/QUOTE]

  10. #110
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    Re: The electoral college

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    So, can we agree that as it stands right now, smaller states have little influence in the national pull of Presidential campaigns or in Congressional legislation? Then you want to decrease that even further, because it is more democratic, more one man=one vote?
    No, we can't agree on that. IMO, small and rural states like Iowa have too much influence. In some regards, more power than states that are much larger

    And I don't see how requiring the electoral votes of a state to go to the presidential candidates in proportion to the vote in that state will reduce the states power in Congress. They will still have just as many senators as the large states have and just as many representatives in the House.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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