• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is atheism a religion[W:711:831]

Is atheism a religion


  • Total voters
    119
Re: Is atheism a religion


No, it's not. It's a religious belief. It's not demographic. It's not socio-economic. It's not political. It's about the religious nature of the belief itself. That's a religious belief.

You say it's not, because you demand that everyone see you as non-religious. I don't care what you demand. What you think of as true is not the only perspective on the planet (which makes it even more hilarious that you say you have no beliefs, only things you know and things you don't). But you need to understand that just because you think something doesn't make it true. Wrap your mind around it. Eventually? Embrace it.

Right now? You're wrong.

And I have no issue saying that, because you're so, so, so convinced that your viewpoint is the only correct one that it's fun to throw your own certainty back in your face.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

No, it's not. It's a religious belief. It's not demographic. It's not socio-economic. It's not political. It's about the religious nature of the belief itself. That's a religious belief.

You say it's not, because you demand that everyone see you as non-religious. I don't care what you demand. What you think of as true is not the only perspective on the planet (which makes it even more hilarious that you say you have no beliefs, only things you know and things you don't). But you need to understand that just because you think something doesn't make it true. Wrap your mind around it. Eventually? Embrace it.

Right now? You're wrong.

And I have no issue saying that, because you're so, so, so convinced that your viewpoint is the only correct one that it's fun to throw your own certainty back in your face.

It sounds like you really, really need to be right.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

It sounds like you really, really need to be right.

Oh, for sure. I'm the one arguing that I don't have a belief for days upon days and pages upon pages.

:)
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Oh, for sure. I'm the one arguing that I don't have a belief for days upon days and pages upon pages.

:)

I don't have a belief.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

]No, it's not. It's a religious belief. It's not demographic. It's not socio-economic. It's not political. It's about the religious nature of the belief itself. That's a religious belief.

You say it's not, because you demand that everyone see you as non-religious. I don't care what you demand. What you think of as true is not the only perspective on the planet (which makes it even more hilarious that you say you have no beliefs, only things you know and things you don't). But you need to understand that just because you think something doesn't make it true. Wrap your mind around it. Eventually? Embrace it.

Right now? You're wrong.

And I have no issue saying that, because you're so, so, so convinced that your viewpoint is the only correct one that it's fun to throw your own certainty back in your face.
no...if anything it is a

phi·los·o·phy

discipline concerned with making explicit the nature and significance of ordinary and scientific beliefs and investigating the intelligibility of concepts by means of rational argument concerning their presuppositions, implications, and interrelationships; in particular, the rational investigation of the nature and structure of reality (metaphysics), the resources and limits of knowledge (epistemology),
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Moderator's Warning:
This is a zero tolerance warning. No further personal comments, period. The topic is atheism, not each other.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

I gotta wonder how many rational people consider rejecting a belief in a God(s) to be a religion unto itself.

None. Rational people don't think absurd things like that.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

You're right. We've already established that it's a religious belief.

We have? Because you seem to be the only one around here who thinks so.

Basically. It's part of their culture, but nothing really more. Do you consider the guy that goes to church once a year with his family for a holiday "religious", if it never broaches his mind otherwise? Why or why not?

Yet more evidence you have no clue what you're talking about, or you're a troll.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Arguably. Arguably not.
If you can't be precise in what you communicate, you aren't actually communicating anything to debate. Please try again.

The question is whether you believe there's something outside of this reality. Or you believe you just don't know.
But that question has been answered. Again, it is as follows.

Knowledge of reality ultimately requires evidence/observation of reality.
Anything defined as "outside of reality" is equivalent to "not real". Real (in reality), not real (not in reality).

Belief of something as being in reality, that by definition is "outside of reality" is contradictory.
Also note, something outside of reality by definition can have no evidence/observation.

As such, if you don't' want to call it absurd or contradictory, we have the term "faith".
Faith is a belief in something, that doesn't require evidence/observation. So belief in an mystical being that is "outside of reality", is faith-based.
In logical contrast, a reasoned belief would be a belief in something as being real that does require evidence/observation.

It all can be summarized simply by noting that it's either REAL, or NOT REAL.
Real being, in reality.

If you want to postulate some concept as being outside of reality, that's not real.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Huh? You just agreed with me and said I was wrong.
Atheism is as close to a religion as one can get without being a religion. Like, for example, Taurus and Sable cars. Atheism is, however, a belief. It's an ideology.

I also pointed out every ideology is allowed in American law except religion even though there is nothing in the Constitution that prevents religion from being in American law.

IMO, the reason why religion isn't allowed in American law is because some people would be offended if religion was allowed in American law. What would happen if Christians in America showed offense (in the way of law suits) if religion wasn't allowed in American law? I ponder this because there's nothing in the Constitution preventing this from happening.
 
Last edited:
Re: Is atheism a religion

Atheism is as close to a religion as one can get without being a religion. Like, for example, Taurus and Sable cars. Atheism is, however, a belief. It's an ideology.

It's not a belief, it's a lack of belief. Try again.

IMO, the reason why religion isn't allowed in American law is because some people would be offended if religion was allowed in American law. What would happen if Christians in America showed offense (in the way of law suits) if religion wasn't allowed in American law? I ponder this because there's nothing in the Constitution preventing this from happening.

The reason religion isn't allowed in American law is because the founding fathers were afraid of America turning into another England of the era. That's why they declared American government to be secular. Too bad it hasn't stayed that way.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

According to OldWorldOrder, that's a religion....

I'll stop paying taxes then. :lol:
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Atheism is, however, a belief. It's an ideology.

Atheism is not an ideology. Atheism is one single belief, that there is no god, or no evidence of god. That is not an ideology. Conservatism, or Liberalism, for example, are political ideologies, and there are atheists in either camp. All atheism is, is one belief about one idea.

Here are 3 dictionary definitions of ideology, they all agree that an ideology is a whole body of beliefs, not just one independent belief.

i·de·ol·o·gy
ˌīdēˈäləjēˌidē-
noun
noun: ideology; plural noun: ideologies

1.
a system of ideas and ideals, esp. one that forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.
"the ideology of republicanism"
synonyms: beliefs, ideas, ideals, principles, ethics, morals; More

a : a systematic body of concepts especially about human life or culture
b : a manner or the content of thinking characteristic of an individual, group, or culture
c : the integrated assertions, theories and aims that constitute a sociopolitical program

i·de·ol·o·gy (d-l-j, d-)
n. pl. i·de·ol·o·gies
1. The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture.
2. A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.

Atheism is none of that.

I also pointed out every ideology is allowed in American law except religion even though there is nothing in the Constitution that prevents religion from being in American law.

The 1st Amendment prevents it.

IMO, the reason why religion isn't allowed in American law is because some people would be offended if religion was allowed in American law.

No, it's because it's unconstitutional. The oppression and violence that were being committed by the governments of the few religious colonies in America before the founding of the USA were remedied by keeping religion out of law.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

It's not a belief, it's a lack of belief. Try again.



The reason religion isn't allowed in American law is because the founding fathers were afraid of America turning into another England of the era. That's why they declared American government to be secular. Too bad it hasn't stayed that way.
Wrong interpretation. The Founding Fathers meant gov't shouldn't elect one religion as the gov't religion, as it was in England, and was the reason why Pilgrims came to the New World.... to be allowed to practice their own religious beliefs without gov't persecution.. Do you recall some of the laws during the time of the Pilgrims in the New World? The Founding Fathers were, in the religion portion of the 1st amendment of the Constitution, saying that the legal practices of the Pilgrims pertaining to religion were OK, but the legal practices of religion pertaining to the gov't of England WEREN'T OK. OK?

And finally, an ideology, as atheism is, is a belief... No? Prove there's no God.
Lack of belief in, for example, abortion = belief..
Lack of belief in, for example, creationism, = belief... Figure it out.

What is the underlying principle(s) of an atheist ideology, or belief?
Well, one would be there's no God.
A second, using my own interpretations, is God should be entirely left out of gov't.

Re read the religion part of the 1st amendment to the Constitution again
 
Last edited:
Re: Is atheism a religion

I understand reread and again in the last sentence of my post are redundant....
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Wrong interpretation. The Founding Fathers meant gov't shouldn't elect one religion as the gov't religion, as it was in England, and was the reason why Pilgrims came to the New World.... to be allowed to practice their own religious beliefs without gov't persecution.. Do you recall some of the laws during the time of the Pilgrims in the New World? The Founding Fathers were, in the religion portion of the 1st amendment of the Constitution, saying that the legal practices of the Pilgrims pertaining to religion were OK, but the legal practices of religion pertaining to the gov't of England WEREN'T OK. OK?

The founding fathers wanted to keep religious influence out of the government, they were, almost without exception, extremely critical of organized religion and religious belief, particularly Christianity. People could believe what they wanted, they could practice their religion as they wanted (for the most part), but when it came to the operation of the government, religion, especially a single powerful religion as you mentioned, was simply not allowed.

And finally, an ideology, as atheism is, is a belief... No? Prove there's no God.

That's not what atheism says. Atheism is the rejection of claims made by the religious. It is not a belief in and of itself.

Lack of belief in, for example, abortion = belief..

Not sure how you can have a lack of belief in abortion because abortion demonstrably exists. Try again.

Lack of belief in, for example, creationism, = belief... Figure it out.

Not even close. Creationism is a laughably failed religious idea that has never even approached the realm of a credible scientific concept. It tried, it failed. It is a fact that it failed. No "lack of belief" involved.

What is the underlying principle(s) of an atheist ideology, or belief?

There isn't one because there is no atheist ideology or belief.

Well, one would be there's no God.

And you are wrong.

A second, using my own interpretations, is God should be entirely left out of gov't.

You can't involve something for which there's no evidence that it exists in the first place. It's about as absurd as saying people have beliefs that unicorns should be entirely left out of the government.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Do you, then, agree that the Framers intended to allow religion in American gov't, and it's organizations like the Atheists, who've successfully been able in some areas of American gov't to eliminate religion from American gov't, that have supplanted the desires of the Framers when it came to religion in American gov't?

Atheism is an organized set of beliefs. Why do some people twist the meaning of belief and ideology to disagree that atheism is one? I don't know, is it because atheism is very close (but not) to being a religion and they're uncomfortable with that?
Atheism involves more than one belief, or disbelief. Atheism is an organized set of beliefs. I've mentioned 2 beliefs pertaining to the atheist faith in a previous post... and I'm not atheist.

Why do you pick on Christianity with you explanation of the Framers intentions with religion? The Framers wanted to stop ONE RELIGION from becoming the official gov't religion in America (as it had been in England). They didn't care if that official gov't religion they stopped was, for example, Christianity, Judiasm, or Islam.

Lack of belief in abortion or creationism stems from a system of beliefs - from an ideology. Don't you agree that some don't agree with abortion because of their religious faith? Duh? Don't you think that some don't agree with creationism because of their lack of religious beliefs? Duh?
 
Last edited:
Re: Is atheism a religion

Do you, then, agree that the Framers intended to allow religion in American gov't, and it's organizations like the Atheists, who've successfully been able in some areas of American gov't to eliminate religion from American gov't, that have supplanted the desires of the Framers when it came to religion in American gov't?

No. That's been demonstrated, repeatedly. They were worried about the kinds of abuses in power that were seen in the few religious colonies in early America. That's why they put the 1st Amendment in there.

Atheism is an organized set of beliefs. Why do some people twist the meaning of belief and ideology to disagree that atheism is one? I don't know, is it because atheism is very close (but not) to being a religion and they're uncomfortable with that?
Atheism involves more than one belief, or disbelief. Atheism is an organized set of beliefs. I've mentioned 2 beliefs pertaining to the atheist faith in a previous post... and I'm not atheist.

No, it isn't. You're making stuff up to suit your arguments. Atheism is nothing but having no belief in deities. Atheism does not extend, in itself, into political beliefs. It is true that most atheists support the Separation Clause, but that support is separate from Atheism.

Lack of belief in abortion or creationism stems from a system of beliefs - from an ideology. Don't you agree that some don't agree with abortion because of their religious faith? Duh? Don't you think that some don't agree with creationism because of their lack of religious beliefs? Duh?

No. People don't believe in Creationism because it's wrong. It's bunk. It's junk science.


A second, using my own interpretations, is God should be entirely left out of gov't.

That's not a part of atheism. I've known several Republican atheists who think the government should harness the power of religion to keep the population in line. In other words, they don't believe in god, but they do believe in the power of the idea of god, so they want it in the government.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

nm.......
 
Last edited:
Re: Is atheism a religion

So is Christianity, like atheism, not an ideology, and only the singular belief that Jesus was the son of God? I mean, figure it out, just once, atheism is an ideology - a set of doctrines or beliefs that forms the basis for one's policy. Someone's ideology doesn't have to be religious... Look up the word ideology, why don't you?

Much to your chagrin (I assume), religion is an ideology. Atheism is an ideology. The only ideology not allowed in American gov't is religion (most likely thanks to atheists).

Show proof that the Framers were (with the religion portion of the 1st amendment to the Constitution, for example) concerned only with:
No. That's been demonstrated, repeatedly. They were worried about the kinds of abuses in power that were seen in the few religious colonies in early America. That's why they put the 1st Amendment in there.
That proof certainly ISN'T evident In the religion portion of the 1st amendment.
 
Last edited:
Re: Is atheism a religion

Want more? Read this link
Is James Madison Still Speaking to Us About Religious Freedom? - VFH – Virginia Foundation for the Humanities

The third to last paragraph (if you include the thankyou) refers to Madison's belief in the separation of church and state, defined by Jefferson's SCOTUS as the absolute removal of religion from gov't. This is an, IMO, incorrect interpretation by the link's writers (and Jefferson's SCOTUS) of Madison's intentions. First and foremost according to Madison, no one religon was to be the state religion. Religious freedom meant anyone could practice their religious beliefs without gov't interference. In other words, in lets say today's public school setting (currently governed by gov't), the Christian could practice their religious beliefs, the Muslim theirs, the Jew theirs, the Atheist theirs, etc. No one would be prevented by gov't from religious freedom.
 
Last edited:
Re: Is atheism a religion

Want more? Read this link
Is James Madison Still Speaking to Us About Religious Freedom? - VFH – Virginia Foundation for the Humanities

The third to last paragraph (if you include the thankyou) refers to Madison's belief in the separation of church and state, defined by Jefferson's SCOTUS as the absolute removal of religion from gov't. This is an, IMO, incorrect interpretation by the link's writers (and Jefferson's SCOTUS) of Madison's intentions. First and foremost according to Madison, no one religon was to be the state religion. Religious freedom meant anyone could practice their religious beliefs without gov't interference. In other words, in lets say today's public school setting (currently governed by gov't), the Christian could practice their religious beliefs, the Muslim theirs, the Jew theirs, the Atheist theirs, etc. No one would be prevented by gov't from religious freedom.

What if there were still Aztecs and Incans running around? Could they rip the hearts out of people for their religion? The fact is, no freedom is ever unlimited, not even religious freedom. Religion has no place in schools. If you want to pray, do it quietly. Nobody can stop you. You just can't make a show of it. It's only the people who want to make a spectacle of it that have problems.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

What if there were still Aztecs and Incans running around? Could they rip the hearts out of people for their religion? The fact is, no freedom is ever unlimited, not even religious freedom. Religion has no place in schools. If you want to pray, do it quietly. Nobody can stop you. You just can't make a show of it. It's only the people who want to make a spectacle of it that have problems.

You're talking about being offended.. What monstrosities are being commited by Christians, Jews, Muslims (not radical ones on Jihad, of course), or Atheists practicing their religion in silence or not in silence?

What if I were offended that Barack Obama was president? Offended if mary jane was legalized? Offended in Gay Pride Parades? Could I get the last presidential election nulified 'cause I'm OFFENDED? Could I get Oregon's and Colorado's legalization of mary jane nulified 'cause I'm OFFENDED? Could I get Gay Pride Parades outlawed 'cause I'm OFFENDED? Jeze, this is America, dude. This is a representative republic. We compromise here, if you don't know....
 
Last edited:
Re: Is atheism a religion

So is Christianity, like atheism, not an ideology, and only the singular belief that Jesus was the son of God?

Christianity is too poorly defined to answer that. Most people consider "true" Christianity to be an acceptance of the Nicean Creed. Not all do. If all that is required to be a Christian is to believe that Jesus was the son of god, but it's okay to worship the devil, and that's still Christianity, then yes. If not, then no.

Satheism is an ideology - a set of doctrines or beliefs that forms the basis for one's policy. Someone's ideology doesn't have to be religious... Look up the word ideology, why don't you?

I know what the word 'ideology' means. You need to look up the word 'atheism'. All atheism means is not believing in gods. There is no set of doctrines or beliefs for atheism. If you think there is, please show me where these are listed, and by what authority they are defined as requisites for atheism.

Secular Humanism, for example, is a religion or ideology that is followed largely by atheists. But Secular Humanism isn't atheism, and atheism isn't Secular Humanism. SC has a set of doctrines and beliefs. Atheism does not. If you believe it does, then please tell me what other beliefs and doctrines you believe are necessarily included in atheism, and where you get that idea from.

Atheism only means a disbelief in god. Anything beyond that isn't described by the term 'atheism'.
 
Back
Top Bottom