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Is atheism a religion[W:711:831]

Is atheism a religion


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Re: Is atheism a religion

Vehemence does not equal being religious or anything else for that matter.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

I would, actually, but let's say they're not: do Taoists have a religion, then? Or are they just philosophers? If you say Taoism isn't a religion, then we're good. You're consistent, anyway.



How many doctrines and practices? You should have a list or something, yes? If there's a very specific thing needed, you should be able to tell me what it is. How many doctrines? Of what kind? For how long?



Some people aren't religious, don't believe in god (or that god doesn't exist, for that matter) and consider atheism to be a religion. The point is what someone 'thinks' about their beliefs is kinda irrelevant. I can say I love Mohammed, think he's the true prophet, and then turn around and say I'm not religious. It doesn't make it true. Just like how atheists go on and on about how they know there's no god, but then say that that's not a religious belief.



No one said it was a system.



Which is a religious belief.



No, I'm not. An atheist actively doesn't believe there's a god. That's a religious belief.

I'm coming to the conclusion that some atheists are so rigidly and doggedly against the idea of a god (often just known as 'religion', but that doesn't entail all of it, as we've seen) that they bristle at the idea of "religious" or "religion" describing them in any way whatsoever. So much so that they'll argue about for damn near 40 pages. The Pavolovian response in them is so strong that they can't help but fight against the very word. But that's too bad. The more they believe, the more they care, the more they fight...the more it describes them.

There's not much point in replying to this at length. You keep asserting it's religion despite proof to the contrary. You are obviously not very versed in philosophy otherwise you would see the obvious holes in your arguments.

You need to learn the difference between religion, philosophy, and epistemology. Your arguments are mostly illogical. A single strong belief is not the basis of religion. You haven't proven that atheism is religion other than your say so.

Just imagine someone who has never been taught to worship a God. They would go about life not thinking about God, or anything related to divine hierarchy. You're telling me that that person would be religious? That doesn't make sense.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Just imagine someone who has never been taught to worship a God. They would go about life not thinking about God, or anything related to divine hierarchy. You're telling me that that person would be religious? That doesn't make sense.

Not necessarily. Deistic belief systems have been around since the dawn of civilization, and avidly expressed in every known human society ever since. Indeed, deistic belief systems were likely the organizing principle around which human civilization was able to become manifest. Therefore, it would be in complete contradiction to what we know of human history to suggest that someone who has never been taught to worship God would not suddenly manifest some sort of deistic cognitions independent of any preexisting social influences. To disagree would be to set oneself upon the absurdity of an eternal regression in search of the primeval atheist, and good luck with that.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Not necessarily. Deistic belief systems have been around since the dawn of civilization, and avidly expressed in every known human society ever since. Indeed, deistic belief systems were likely the organizing principle around which human civilization was able to become manifest. Therefore, it would be in complete contradiction to what we know of human history to suggest that someone who has never been taught to worship God would not suddenly manifest some sort of deistic cognitions independent of any preexisting social influences.

?

de·ism
n.
The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.
deist - definition of deist by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


To disagree would be to set oneself upon the absurdity of an eternal regression in search of the primeval atheist, and good luck with that.

Don't you mean "primeval adeist"?
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Don't you mean "primeval adeist"?

Go ask your mother.

And give the old mare a swift kick in her arse for giving me a son with tapioca pudding for a brain!

Now that's a good lad...


...and get me a beer from the fridge while you're at, boy!
 
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Re: Is atheism a religion

Go ask your mother.

And give the old mare a swift kick in her arse for giving me a son with tapioca pudding for a brain!

Now that's a good lad...


...and get me a beer from the fridge while you're at, boy!

You are just as ridiculous as before... well done.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Were you using the wrong word or presenting a new theory?

That's all I'm allowed to say around here without incurring an infraction.


...uh, oh... I've said too much already!
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

...uh, oh... I've said too much already!

Not at all. Please, enlighten us about that bizarre use of improper terminology. It looked like an argument posted by a parrot that managed to get one word wrong. Was it parroting and a mistake on the basic term because of a lack of real understanding, or was it a new theory?
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Not at all. Please, enlighten us about that bizarre use of improper terminology. It looked like an argument posted by a parrot that managed to get one word wrong. Was it parroting and a mistake on the basic term because of a lack of real understanding, or was it a new theory?

I'm sorry, but all I can say is:





...anything more could get me in trouble.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

There's not much point in replying to this at length. You keep asserting it's religion despite proof to the contrary.

You didn't 'prove' anything. It's kinda shocking how you think you did, though.

You are obviously not very versed in philosophy otherwise you would see the obvious holes in your arguments.

lol

You need to learn the difference between religion, philosophy, and epistemology. Your arguments are mostly illogical. A single strong belief is not the basis of religion. You haven't proven that atheism is religion other than your say so.

And vice versa for you.

Just imagine someone who has never been taught to worship a God. They would go about life not thinking about God, or anything related to divine hierarchy. You're telling me that that person would be religious? That doesn't make sense.

If they didn't think about god, that'd be one thing. You, however, obviously are. However, if you were posting without any conscious thought whatsoever, that might explain things.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Atheism is merely a lack of belief in deities. It says nothing more than that. Your own definition says Atheism is not a religion.

It's not my definition. It's the dictionary's. And no, it doesn't.

Unless we suggest that Taoism and Buddhism are likewise not religions.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

It's not my definition. It's the dictionary's. And no, it doesn't.

Unless we suggest that Taoism and Buddhism are likewise not religions.

A Bodhisattva is effectively a deity.

Taoism has reverence for immortals as well as practices divination, which implies that there are some form of God(s) out there.

Atheism is merely a lack of belief in deities.

Want to try again?
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

A Bodhisattva is effectively a deity.

No.

Taoism has reverence for immortals as well as practices divination, which implies that there are some form of God(s) out there.

Some. Not all.

Atheism is merely a lack of belief in deities.

Which itself is a belief.

Want to try again?

Try what? Does it upset you to think of yourself as religious?
 
Re: Is atheism a religion


Yes. Especially when Buddhists pray to them for help.

Some. Not all.

So? Taoism has divination rituals. Don't play the "true Taoist" fallacy here.

Which itself is a belief.

How is lack of belief a belief? Is being bald a type of hair color? C'mon. Stop being ridiculous.

Definition of BELIEF
1
: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing

Atheism is not deities do not exist, Atheism is a fundamental lack of belief in deities at all.

Try what? Does it upset you to think of yourself as religious?

Not an atheist.

Try again.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

I don't know, I'm not the one who called over half the world's population "delusional," as if you know better than they do. That pretty much defines "arrogance."

If they actually believe in things for which there is no objective evidence, then they are delusional. Of course, religiosity worldwide is falling at a tremendous rate and those people who actually take these beliefs seriously, as opposed to those who simply pay them lip service out of social concerns, are actually pretty small. It won't be too much longer before the actually religious are a tiny minority that can be safely ignored.

There is no arrogance in the truth.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Bad analogy.

Actually, it's a perfect analogy. The fact that you don't recognize it explains why you're so wrong all the time.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

A religion is a system of beliefs and a uniform moral, ethical and behavioural code. Atheism is simply not believing in one point of debate about the nature of the Universe. Atheists have a wide variety of moral, ethical and behavioural codes. There's no one "Atheist belief system."
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

Definition of BELIEF
1
: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing

Atheism is not deities do not exist, Atheism is a fundamental lack of belief in deities at all.

Dictionary.com

be·lief [bih-leef] Show IPA
noun
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4.
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.

M-W

be·lief noun \bə-ˈlēf\

Definition of BELIEF

1
: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2
: something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3
: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence

Atheism meets 2 and 3 of M-W definitions and 1, 2, and 3 of dictionary.com's definitions. Atheism is a belief, regardless of if it is a religion or not. The tenet/thing believed is "God's, God, your God doesn't exist." it is held by a group of people that has been categorized by society, "Atheists." The position that there is no proof of religion is the underlying opinion to support the over tenet.

"Disbelieving" is kind of like "irregardless". We created the term to describe something but disbelief, as a term, is confusing the very people who created it. There is no such thing as a lack of belief. You can believe in a lack of something which is what atheists are doing. People can believe in negative positions. But atheism is not a lack of a belief at any point.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

An atheist actively doesn't believe there's a god. That's a religious belief.

First of all, it's not a religious belief. It's a scientific belief that a concept so foreign to all known laws of physics can be considered probable. That's not a religious belief. Just because someone else worships the idea of a super-natural gobblin, doesn't make my dismissal of the idea religious (based on their worship).

Wikipedia:
Religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to the supernatural, and to spirituality.

This does not describe the singular belief that there isn't a metaphysical universe ruled by a supernatural monster that's flying around in space.

Merriam Webster: 1
a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2
: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

Still does not describe a disbelief in things that are extremely improbable.

Dictionary dot com:

1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

Nope, still doesn't do it.

We could go through every reference on language there is, and they'll all say the same thing. If you've redefined the word "religion" to mean "a belief or disbelief in something", you can't expect the rest of the world to start using your new definition just because you're so special.


Second of all, a single religious belief is not a religion. Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Baha'i all believe in the same god, but they're all very different religions. To say that a belief or disbelief in a supernatural entity is, in itself, a religion would mean that those are all just different denominations of teh same religion, which is very far from any standard definition.

I know you feel very strongly that the definition of "religion" you've made up is better than the one the rest of the English-speaking world uses, but that's not really meaningful to anyone but you.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

There are different definitions of religion, so whether or not atheism is a religion depends upon to which definition one subscribes. If one goes with the superhuman deity definition of religion then the answer is no, but if one goes with shared belief about cause and nature of things, then yes.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

if one goes with shared belief about cause and nature of things, then yes.

Still no. Atheism, in itself, doesn't share any belief about the cause and nature of things. One may believe the universe started in the big bang. One may believe it started at the end of the collapse of a previous universe -- sometimes known as the big bounce. One may believe that we do not, and cannot know, and that both of the aforementioned are likely wrong. One may believe that there are many, many universes, or only one.

If you want to talk about "religiously held beliefs", that's different from "religion", though. For example, I believe, in the most absolute way, that the Earth is round. My determined belief in that doesn't make it a religion. I believe with certainty that there isn't a massless, invisible, extra-dimensional hippopotamus sitting on my head -- even though it's impossible to prove. That doesn't make it my religion. Not believing in a thousand ridiculous things doesn't mean I have a thousand a-thing religions.
 
Re: Is atheism a religion

OldWorldOrder said:
An atheist actively doesn't believe there's a god. That's a religious belief.
First, that's not totally true.
We believe, due to Lack of proof, or even Any Evidence, there's isn't/highly-probably-isn't a god.
IF evidence surfaced of a god (which probably won't happen and probably wouldn't be your 'god', since there are so many), I think I can speak for any atheist in saying we'd be delighted at this amazing development and it would then be demonstrated for us precisely what he's done/doing.

Former poster here C Gerstle:
"To call Atheism a religion is to call bald a hair color.

To be honest, "atheist" is a word that shouldn't even exist. No one has to acknowledge themselves as a "non-alchemist" or "non-astrologist."

The word "atheist" only exists because dogmatists outnumber the skeptics in this case."

[.....]​

IOW, Does you Not believing in Astrology make you an active 'believer'/religionist in something else?
No.
It's only because, as Gerstle says, that people who happen TO believe are in great Majority, that Non-believers even get Painted with the/A word 'Atheist', much less constitute a 'religion'.
 
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Re: Is atheism a religion

Still no. Atheism, in itself, doesn't share any belief about the cause and nature of things. One may believe the universe started in the big bang. One may believe it started at the end of the collapse of a previous universe -- sometimes known as the big bounce. One may believe that we do not, and cannot know, and that both of the aforementioned are likely wrong. One may believe that there are many, many universes, or only one.

If you want to talk about "religiously held beliefs", that's different from "religion", though. For example, I believe, in the most absolute way, that the Earth is round. My determined belief in that doesn't make it a religion. I believe with certainty that there isn't a massless, invisible, extra-dimensional hippopotamus sitting on my head -- even though it's impossible to prove. That doesn't make it my religion. Not believing in a thousand ridiculous things doesn't mean I have a thousand a-thing religions.
Atheism rules out intelligent design, is intelligent design not a belief of the cause and nature of things? Therefore, does atheism not concern the cause and nature of things?
 
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