View Poll Results: Is atheism a religion

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  • Yes

    23 16.31%
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    118 83.69%
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Thread: Is atheism a religion[W:711:831]

  1. #911
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Who runs the facility, the chapel? The Methodist Church. So, you're saying if they used a different tax status (btw, why do they need another tax status, they're a church), they wouldn't have to pay taxes? Sounds like a shell game to me.
    They had filed as a non-profit maintaining a publicly accessible facility. They were not. They had to change their non-profit status. That is not in any way preventing them from practicing their religion, which you have imagined is happening wide-spread in the US. It isn't. You should look for more honest information sources.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  2. #912
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    So, a state says a church is tax exempt to a certain point? Who or what determines that point? Why are state constitutions different than the US Constitution concerning churches and taxes?
    Last edited by cabse5; 08-30-13 at 04:21 PM.

  3. #913
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    And still, if the Methodist Church in New Jersey would disregard their own canon and allow same-sex marriages, they'd get tax exempt status for the chapel that they maintain and operate. So, no state gov't is attempting to force The Methodist Church to behave in a certain way? Hum?

    And, IMO, we are getting off the topic of the thread.
    Last edited by cabse5; 08-30-13 at 04:31 PM.

  4. #914
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    And still, if the Methodist Church in New Jersey would disregard their own canon and allow same-sex marriages, they'd get tax exempt status for the chapel that they maintain and operate. So, no state gov't is attempting to force The Methodist Church to behave in a certain way? Hum?

    And, IMO, we are getting off the topic of the thread.
    So you reiterate your point then say we're off topic?

    Well, either topic, that atheism is a religion and that the 1st Amendment allows for religious government have both been debunked to death, as has a variety of tertiary topics, such as the disinformed idea that there is wide spread religious persecution in the United States.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  5. #915
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Seriously, why do you have such a hard on for Madison? Because he's the only one of the founding fathers you can make fit into your mold?

    Actually, Cephus...cabse5 believes Madison was against "separation of church and state" and that sites, which he just posted one, has manipulated Madison's quotes to give us all the wrong opinion about Madison's true beliefs.

    I argue the opposite. Madison was indeed in support for separation of church and state...despite being a religious person...but for a different reason than most would suspect.

    Let me offer a bit of an article that gives one of the best explanations regarding Madison's views and beliefs. Oddly the article comes from the Wall St. Journal. The entire article is worth the read...and it isn't very long.

    But Madison's most important contribution to religious freedom was not legislative, it was theoretical. It really was Madison who shaped the most holistic and effective theory of what religious freedom was and why we wanted it. For Jefferson, it was often about protecting the political system from religious interference.

    Madison's emphasis was different. He believed that the main reason to have separation of church and state was to help religion. He came to this view in part because of an unusual but crucial alliance he built with evangelical Christians of his day. That's right. At that time, the evangelical Christians were the leading supporters of separation of church and state, and Madison was one of their greatest champions. They believed that not only was government repression bad but so was government help. Madison agreed and worked hand in hand with the evangelicals to press this point. In a crucial document called the Memorial and Remonstrance, Madison integrated the arguments of the Enlightenment intellectuals with the arguments of the evangelicals to create something much greater. Separating church and state would be better for both state and church.

    This may be a concept that's a bit jarring to modern culture warriors. We've come to think that if you're pro religion you must surely want government to play a greater role in promoting religion. And if you're in favor of separation of church and state that you must want to reduce religion's role.

    Madison and his evangelical allies had a completely different concept. They wanted to promote religion. They just believed that the best way to promote religion was for government to leave it alone.

    Madison and Religious Freedom - WSJ.com

  6. #916
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Who runs the facility, the chapel? The Methodist Church. So, you're saying if they used a different tax status (btw, why do they need another tax status, they're a church), they wouldn't have to pay taxes? Sounds like a shell game to me.
    If all churches paid tax's there wouldnt have been any Jimmy Swaggarts or any of those other ****s.

  7. #917
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Actually, Cephus...cabse5 believes Madison was against "separation of church and state" and that sites, which he just posted one, has manipulated Madison's quotes to give us all the wrong opinion about Madison's true beliefs.

    I argue the opposite. Madison was indeed in support for separation of church and state...despite being a religious person...but for a different reason than most would suspect.

    Let me offer a bit of an article that gives one of the best explanations regarding Madison's views and beliefs. Oddly the article comes from the Wall St. Journal. The entire article is worth the read...and it isn't very long.
    Regardless, if someone picks one person out of a large group as the only representative of their views, then clearly they cannot find any of the rest of the group that agrees with them. 56 people signed the Declaration of Independence. How many of those can be demonstrated to agree with cabse5's assertions? One? Then the idea that the nation was founded on his ideas are demonstrably false.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  8. #918
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    At that time, the evangelical Christians were the leading supporters of separation of church and state, and Madison was one of their greatest champions. They believed that not only was government repression bad but so was government help.
    That's the only sane view for religious people to take. It's funny. They completely and totally distrust the government. They want it out of education. They want it out of health care. They want it out of food and drug preparation. They want it out of Wall Street. They want it out of charity. But damn are they mad they can't get it into their churches.

    Just nutso thinking.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  9. #919
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Why do you assume that everyone must have a "belief system"?
    Because they do. Some simply aren't self aware enough to realize it...

  10. #920
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    That's the only sane view for religious people to take. It's funny. They completely and totally distrust the government. They want it out of education. They want it out of health care. They want it out of food and drug preparation. They want it out of Wall Street. They want it out of charity. But damn are they mad they can't get it into their churches.

    Just nutso thinking.
    Oh no, they don't want the government in their churches but they sure do want their churches in the government!
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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