View Poll Results: Is atheism a religion

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Thread: Is atheism a religion[W:711:831]

  1. #901
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Here's a link attempting to identify many (not all) quotes about religion and gov't and separation of church and state attributed to James Madison:
    James Madison His Writings
    Seriously, why do you have such a hard on for Madison? Because he's the only one of the founding fathers you can make fit into your mold?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    [ . . . ] Did Madison think it preferable that religion is allowed in American society? Is the current definition of separation of church and state what Madison had in mind when he penned separation of church and state? [ . . . ] IMO, no one religion should have state status, and people should be able to worship as they please? You do realize this is NOTHING like the current definition of the separation of church and state... that state should be DEVOID of religion... [ . . . ] IMO, Madison would be saying that the state, when disallowing someone from practicing their own religion (even in a gov't context), is not keeping to the intent of the religion portion of the first amendment. [ . . . ] Madison's stated in many contexts and venues that people in America should be allowed to practice their own religion's beliefs, how has the definition of the separation of the church and state been bastardized - to mean gov't should be DEVOID of religion?
    You are terribly confused about the difference between an individual and a government. Individuals are, and have always been, free to practice their own religious beliefs. That's not being challenged in any way by anyone of note. It never has been. The Government, however, is not to direct that practice. The Government being prevented from getting involved with religion in no way whatsoever prevents individuals from practicing their own beliefs.

    The practice of religion in our society is in no way being limited. The involvement of the government into that practice, however, is, and has been since the founding.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    You are terribly confused
    You could have just stopped there and saved yourself a lot of typing.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #904
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    You are terribly confused about the difference between an individual and a government. Individuals are, and have always been, free to practice their own religious beliefs. That's not being challenged in any way by anyone of note. It never has been. The Government, however, is not to direct that practice. The Government being prevented from getting involved with religion in no way whatsoever prevents individuals from practicing their own beliefs.

    The practice of religion in our society is in no way being limited. The involvement of the government into that practice, however, is, and has been since the founding.
    For example, the Methodist religion in New Jersey was denied state tax exempt status in New Jersey, because a church in New Jersey refused to allow a lesbian couple to be married in their facility, because same-sex marriages are not allowed in the Methodist religion. How does this fly with the first sentence of the bolded, a somewhat fairytale statement? How does the second sentence of the bolded fly when examining the religion portion of the first amendment to the Constitution (that there should be no one gov't religion determined by gov't)?

    Matter of fact, how does a religion lose tax exempt status in the first place? According in the Constitution, all religions are to be exempt from taxes.
    Last edited by cabse5; 08-30-13 at 03:19 PM.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    You are terribly confused about the difference between an individual and a government. Individuals are, and have always been, free to practice their own religious beliefs. That's not being challenged in any way by anyone of note. It never has been. The Government, however, is not to direct that practice. The Government being prevented from getting involved with religion in no way whatsoever prevents individuals from practicing their own beliefs.

    The practice of religion in our society is in no way being limited. The involvement of the government into that practice, however, is, and has been since the founding.
    So an individual has the right to exercise their own religious beliefs as long as it's not in a gov't setting. How does this fly with the religion portion of the first amendment? Not well at all.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Seriously, why do you have such a hard on for Madison? Because he's the only one of the founding fathers you can make fit into your mold?
    Why don't you read about Madison's influence to the Constitution concerning religion and gov't?

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    So an individual has the right to exercise their own religious beliefs as long as it's not in a gov't setting. How does this fly with the religion portion of the first amendment? Not well at all.
    No. Even in a government setting they're allowed to practice their belief as an individual. NOT as an official. In other words, not as an act of office, and not acting in the capacity of the officeholder. If you were mayor, you'd have every right to personally hate gays if that's your religious belief. But if you tried to direct the Office of the Mayor to attack gays, that would be illegal. Your personal religious beliefs are not the religious beliefs of the office, itself.

    So when some asshole like ex-Judge Roy Moore says he's going to ignore Alabama law and adjudicate from the Bible, instead, he gets disbarred and kicked off the bench, because he was trying to use his office as a religious establishment. Had he kept his personal view personal and faithfully executed the office he held, then he wouldn't have had any problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    For example, the Methodist religion in New Jersey was denied state tax exempt status in New Jersey, because a church in New Jersey refused to allow a lesbian couple to be married in their facility, because same-sex marriages are not allowed in the Methodist religion. How does this fly with the first sentence of the bolded, a somewhat fairytale statement? How does the second sentence of the bolded fly when examining the religion portion of the first amendment to the Constitution (that there should be no one gov't religion determined by gov't)?

    Matter of fact, how does a religion lose tax exempt status in the first place? According in the Constitution, all religions are to be exempt from taxes.
    This is bunk. Debunking The Four Most Commonly Cited Anti-Equality Horror Stories | Equality Matters

    They had to change from one tax exempt status to another. They were using land tax-exempt as a non-profit maintaining publicly-accessible facility, but they were denying access to those facilities based on gender. They had to change it to a religious tax-exemption.

    Mind you, they weren't excepted from the non-religious non-profit for refusing to perform same-sex marriages, but refusing to allow others to access the pavilion to perform same-sex marriages outside of the church. Since they were using a tax-exempt status for publicly accessible facilities, they can't do that -- unless they want to change the tax exemption status.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by AreteCourage View Post
    No they shouldn't have time to worship unless it is at their leisure during break, lunch, or free time within class...that is it...nothing special taken out so they can pray.
    Seriously...

    At what point did people assume they were owed the privilege of holding up places of learning or other functions with their praying?

    Just pray in your head God can still hear you.

  9. #909
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    How are places of learning or 'other functions' being held up if groups of people agree to meet and worship?

    And how is what, I assume, you're trying to prevent more heinous an offense than being forced to listen to an ideological professor say that homosexuality is heredity??
    Last edited by cabse5; 08-30-13 at 04:10 PM.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    No. Even in a government setting they're allowed to practice their belief as an individual. NOT as an official. In other words, not as an act of office, and not acting in the capacity of the officeholder. If you were mayor, you'd have every right to personally hate gays if that's your religious belief. But if you tried to direct the Office of the Mayor to attack gays, that would be illegal. Your personal religious beliefs are not the religious beliefs of the office, itself.

    So when some asshole like ex-Judge Roy Moore says he's going to ignore Alabama law and adjudicate from the Bible, instead, he gets disbarred and kicked off the bench, because he was trying to use his office as a religious establishment. Had he kept his personal view personal and faithfully executed the office he held, then he wouldn't have had any problem.



    This is bunk. Debunking The Four Most Commonly Cited Anti-Equality Horror Stories | Equality Matters

    They had to change from one tax exempt status to another. They were using land tax-exempt as a non-profit maintaining publicly-accessible facility, but they were denying access to those facilities based on gender. They had to change it to a religious tax-exemption.

    Mind you, they weren't excepted from the non-religious non-profit for refusing to perform same-sex marriages, but refusing to allow others to access the pavilion to perform same-sex marriages outside of the church. Since they were using a tax-exempt status for publicly accessible facilities, they can't do that -- unless they want to change the tax exemption status.
    Who runs the facility, the chapel? The Methodist Church. So, you're saying if they used a different tax status (btw, why do they need another tax status, they're a church), they wouldn't have to pay taxes? Sounds like a shell game to me.
    Last edited by cabse5; 08-30-13 at 04:00 PM.

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