View Poll Results: Is atheism a religion

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    23 16.31%
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Thread: Is atheism a religion[W:711:831]

  1. #81
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    No. These are two entirely different subjects.

    One is about what knowledge is possible. One is about how to live our lives and assess reality based on whatever knowledge we have.

    Atheists do not "believe" anything. They simply have not seen compelling evidence of any deity. End of story.

    Well, you may "believe" that's what atheism is, but you're mistaken.

    Are you suggesting that an atheist can believe in God?

  2. #82
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Are you suggesting that an atheist can believe in God?
    No. If they start believing in a god, they stop being an atheist.

    However, an atheist is always open to evidence, which could theoretically result in them no longer being atheist.

  3. #83
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    No, atheism isn't a religion. Although some atheists do their best to turn it into one.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Wrong, and you're contradicting yourself since you yourself have already acknowledged that the nonexistence of God is a position arrived at through lack of evidence of his existence, which is not the same thing as coming out and making the positive claim that he doesn't exist.
    Where is the contradiction? You already agreed that most atheists believe God doesn't exist. We're talking about those guys. Are we going back on that now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Religious people make the positive claim that he exists, fail to support it in any way, and atheists have responded quite reasonably that until such time as you provide evidence they're not required to accept the claim (or even the possibility) that he exists. You're playing semantic games but they're completely transparent.
    Completely transparent to whom? I'm not sure where you get these preconceived biases from, but I assure you I'm not playing any games. Religious people do make the positive claim (I'm using popular atheist "lingo" here, but really, is there any other type of claim?) that God does exist. We can agree on that fundamental point.

    Atheists don't accept that claim. Fine. My original point (all the way back to when I responded to Smoke And Mirrors) was that the human mind cannot grasp a negative concept. Like if I tell you not to imagine a pink elephant, you will naturally imagine a pink elephant.

    I made a leap, based on how we know the human mind works, to suggest that atheists in fact do more than disbelieve God due to lack of evidence, they most likely believe that God does not exist.

    They do so because the human mind can ONLY work with "positive claims," as you would call them. We can't conceive of "not elephants," we can only imagine elephants.

    My final point was that this belief - that God does not exist - cannot be proved. This is also fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    That's an irrelevant observation since it's not our job to disprove the existence of god in the first place. It's your job to prove that he does.
    Why is that my "job," and why do I get the feeling the check is going to bounce? Neither side is obligated to prove anything to the other. Atheism or theism are simply matters of faith, neither is superior from that standpoint and neither has a higher burden of proof.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    No. If they start believing in a god, they stop being an atheist.

    However, an atheist is always open to evidence, which could theoretically result in them no longer being atheist.
    You don't see the flaw in your logic here?

  6. #86
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    You don't see the flaw in your logic here?
    No, it makes perfect sense. Atheism is not dogmatic, it is always open to new evidence and an evaluation of new findings and claims, just like science is. If someone were to find objective evidence that a god actually existed, I'd believe in it and stop being an atheist.

    Is there something confusing in there for you?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Kind of funny that we're going back and forth.... that there's so much discussion around a simple definition that a grade-schooler would know: Atheists don't believe in God.

    Not sure why anyone would look to convolute that. Intriguing.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Not a religion, but today's atheism is certainly a social agenda.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    No, it makes perfect sense. Atheism is not dogmatic, it is always open to new evidence and an evaluation of new findings and claims, just like science is. If someone were to find objective evidence that a god actually existed, I'd believe in it and stop being an atheist.

    Is there something confusing in there for you?
    Not confusing.... just wrong.

    You can say science is open to new findings and claims.... fine. That's fair enough, but it's also totally not the point.

    Atheism is defined as the theory or belief that God does not exist. If you, swayed by the overwhelming evidence, were to suddenly start believing in God, that wouldn't redefine atheism, it would simply mean you would cease to be an atheist.

    In that way, atheism is quite dogmatic. The word is intended to describe a fluid subset of people who do not currently believe in the existence of God. You can jump in and out of that subset depending on your beliefs at the time.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Not confusing.... just wrong.

    You can say science is open to new findings and claims.... fine. That's fair enough, but it's also totally not the point.

    Atheism is defined as the theory or belief that God does not exist. If you, swayed by the overwhelming evidence, were to suddenly start believing in God, that wouldn't redefine atheism, it would simply mean you would cease to be an atheist.

    In that way, atheism is quite dogmatic. The word is intended to describe a fluid subset of people who do not currently believe in the existence of God. You can jump in and out of that subset depending on your beliefs at the time.
    You can sit around and repeat that nonsense all you want, you can have a big old parade if you wish, but your definition is still wrong. All the bitching and whining and complaining in the world isn't going to change that.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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