View Poll Results: Is atheism a religion

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Thread: Is atheism a religion[W:711:831]

  1. #841
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    I understand reread and again in the last sentence of my post are redundant....

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Wrong interpretation. The Founding Fathers meant gov't shouldn't elect one religion as the gov't religion, as it was in England, and was the reason why Pilgrims came to the New World.... to be allowed to practice their own religious beliefs without gov't persecution.. Do you recall some of the laws during the time of the Pilgrims in the New World? The Founding Fathers were, in the religion portion of the 1st amendment of the Constitution, saying that the legal practices of the Pilgrims pertaining to religion were OK, but the legal practices of religion pertaining to the gov't of England WEREN'T OK. OK?
    The founding fathers wanted to keep religious influence out of the government, they were, almost without exception, extremely critical of organized religion and religious belief, particularly Christianity. People could believe what they wanted, they could practice their religion as they wanted (for the most part), but when it came to the operation of the government, religion, especially a single powerful religion as you mentioned, was simply not allowed.

    And finally, an ideology, as atheism is, is a belief... No? Prove there's no God.
    That's not what atheism says. Atheism is the rejection of claims made by the religious. It is not a belief in and of itself.

    Lack of belief in, for example, abortion = belief..
    Not sure how you can have a lack of belief in abortion because abortion demonstrably exists. Try again.

    Lack of belief in, for example, creationism, = belief... Figure it out.
    Not even close. Creationism is a laughably failed religious idea that has never even approached the realm of a credible scientific concept. It tried, it failed. It is a fact that it failed. No "lack of belief" involved.

    What is the underlying principle(s) of an atheist ideology, or belief?
    There isn't one because there is no atheist ideology or belief.

    Well, one would be there's no God.
    And you are wrong.

    A second, using my own interpretations, is God should be entirely left out of gov't.
    You can't involve something for which there's no evidence that it exists in the first place. It's about as absurd as saying people have beliefs that unicorns should be entirely left out of the government.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #843
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Do you, then, agree that the Framers intended to allow religion in American gov't, and it's organizations like the Atheists, who've successfully been able in some areas of American gov't to eliminate religion from American gov't, that have supplanted the desires of the Framers when it came to religion in American gov't?

    Atheism is an organized set of beliefs. Why do some people twist the meaning of belief and ideology to disagree that atheism is one? I don't know, is it because atheism is very close (but not) to being a religion and they're uncomfortable with that?
    Atheism involves more than one belief, or disbelief. Atheism is an organized set of beliefs. I've mentioned 2 beliefs pertaining to the atheist faith in a previous post... and I'm not atheist.

    Why do you pick on Christianity with you explanation of the Framers intentions with religion? The Framers wanted to stop ONE RELIGION from becoming the official gov't religion in America (as it had been in England). They didn't care if that official gov't religion they stopped was, for example, Christianity, Judiasm, or Islam.

    Lack of belief in abortion or creationism stems from a system of beliefs - from an ideology. Don't you agree that some don't agree with abortion because of their religious faith? Duh? Don't you think that some don't agree with creationism because of their lack of religious beliefs? Duh?
    Last edited by cabse5; 08-25-13 at 05:10 PM.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Do you, then, agree that the Framers intended to allow religion in American gov't, and it's organizations like the Atheists, who've successfully been able in some areas of American gov't to eliminate religion from American gov't, that have supplanted the desires of the Framers when it came to religion in American gov't?
    No. That's been demonstrated, repeatedly. They were worried about the kinds of abuses in power that were seen in the few religious colonies in early America. That's why they put the 1st Amendment in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Atheism is an organized set of beliefs. Why do some people twist the meaning of belief and ideology to disagree that atheism is one? I don't know, is it because atheism is very close (but not) to being a religion and they're uncomfortable with that?
    Atheism involves more than one belief, or disbelief. Atheism is an organized set of beliefs. I've mentioned 2 beliefs pertaining to the atheist faith in a previous post... and I'm not atheist.
    No, it isn't. You're making stuff up to suit your arguments. Atheism is nothing but having no belief in deities. Atheism does not extend, in itself, into political beliefs. It is true that most atheists support the Separation Clause, but that support is separate from Atheism.

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Lack of belief in abortion or creationism stems from a system of beliefs - from an ideology. Don't you agree that some don't agree with abortion because of their religious faith? Duh? Don't you think that some don't agree with creationism because of their lack of religious beliefs? Duh?
    No. People don't believe in Creationism because it's wrong. It's bunk. It's junk science.


    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    A second, using my own interpretations, is God should be entirely left out of gov't.
    That's not a part of atheism. I've known several Republican atheists who think the government should harness the power of religion to keep the population in line. In other words, they don't believe in god, but they do believe in the power of the idea of god, so they want it in the government.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  5. #845
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    nm.......
    Last edited by cabse5; 08-26-13 at 01:16 PM.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    So is Christianity, like atheism, not an ideology, and only the singular belief that Jesus was the son of God? I mean, figure it out, just once, atheism is an ideology - a set of doctrines or beliefs that forms the basis for one's policy. Someone's ideology doesn't have to be religious... Look up the word ideology, why don't you?

    Much to your chagrin (I assume), religion is an ideology. Atheism is an ideology. The only ideology not allowed in American gov't is religion (most likely thanks to atheists).

    Show proof that the Framers were (with the religion portion of the 1st amendment to the Constitution, for example) concerned only with:
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    No. That's been demonstrated, repeatedly. They were worried about the kinds of abuses in power that were seen in the few religious colonies in early America. That's why they put the 1st Amendment in there.
    That proof certainly ISN'T evident In the religion portion of the 1st amendment.
    Last edited by cabse5; 08-26-13 at 01:35 PM.

  7. #847
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Want more? Read this link
    Is James Madison Still Speaking to Us About Religious Freedom? - VFH – Virginia Foundation for the Humanities

    The third to last paragraph (if you include the thankyou) refers to Madison's belief in the separation of church and state, defined by Jefferson's SCOTUS as the absolute removal of religion from gov't. This is an, IMO, incorrect interpretation by the link's writers (and Jefferson's SCOTUS) of Madison's intentions. First and foremost according to Madison, no one religon was to be the state religion. Religious freedom meant anyone could practice their religious beliefs without gov't interference. In other words, in lets say today's public school setting (currently governed by gov't), the Christian could practice their religious beliefs, the Muslim theirs, the Jew theirs, the Atheist theirs, etc. No one would be prevented by gov't from religious freedom.
    Last edited by cabse5; 08-26-13 at 04:40 PM.

  8. #848
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Want more? Read this link
    Is James Madison Still Speaking to Us About Religious Freedom? - VFH – Virginia Foundation for the Humanities

    The third to last paragraph (if you include the thankyou) refers to Madison's belief in the separation of church and state, defined by Jefferson's SCOTUS as the absolute removal of religion from gov't. This is an, IMO, incorrect interpretation by the link's writers (and Jefferson's SCOTUS) of Madison's intentions. First and foremost according to Madison, no one religon was to be the state religion. Religious freedom meant anyone could practice their religious beliefs without gov't interference. In other words, in lets say today's public school setting (currently governed by gov't), the Christian could practice their religious beliefs, the Muslim theirs, the Jew theirs, the Atheist theirs, etc. No one would be prevented by gov't from religious freedom.
    What if there were still Aztecs and Incans running around? Could they rip the hearts out of people for their religion? The fact is, no freedom is ever unlimited, not even religious freedom. Religion has no place in schools. If you want to pray, do it quietly. Nobody can stop you. You just can't make a show of it. It's only the people who want to make a spectacle of it that have problems.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    What if there were still Aztecs and Incans running around? Could they rip the hearts out of people for their religion? The fact is, no freedom is ever unlimited, not even religious freedom. Religion has no place in schools. If you want to pray, do it quietly. Nobody can stop you. You just can't make a show of it. It's only the people who want to make a spectacle of it that have problems.
    You're talking about being offended.. What monstrosities are being commited by Christians, Jews, Muslims (not radical ones on Jihad, of course), or Atheists practicing their religion in silence or not in silence?

    What if I were offended that Barack Obama was president? Offended if mary jane was legalized? Offended in Gay Pride Parades? Could I get the last presidential election nulified 'cause I'm OFFENDED? Could I get Oregon's and Colorado's legalization of mary jane nulified 'cause I'm OFFENDED? Could I get Gay Pride Parades outlawed 'cause I'm OFFENDED? Jeze, this is America, dude. This is a representative republic. We compromise here, if you don't know....
    Last edited by cabse5; 08-26-13 at 05:03 PM.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    So is Christianity, like atheism, not an ideology, and only the singular belief that Jesus was the son of God?
    Christianity is too poorly defined to answer that. Most people consider "true" Christianity to be an acceptance of the Nicean Creed. Not all do. If all that is required to be a Christian is to believe that Jesus was the son of god, but it's okay to worship the devil, and that's still Christianity, then yes. If not, then no.

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Satheism is an ideology - a set of doctrines or beliefs that forms the basis for one's policy. Someone's ideology doesn't have to be religious... Look up the word ideology, why don't you?
    I know what the word 'ideology' means. You need to look up the word 'atheism'. All atheism means is not believing in gods. There is no set of doctrines or beliefs for atheism. If you think there is, please show me where these are listed, and by what authority they are defined as requisites for atheism.

    Secular Humanism, for example, is a religion or ideology that is followed largely by atheists. But Secular Humanism isn't atheism, and atheism isn't Secular Humanism. SC has a set of doctrines and beliefs. Atheism does not. If you believe it does, then please tell me what other beliefs and doctrines you believe are necessarily included in atheism, and where you get that idea from.

    Atheism only means a disbelief in god. Anything beyond that isn't described by the term 'atheism'.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

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