View Poll Results: Is atheism a religion

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  • Yes

    23 16.31%
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    118 83.69%
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Thread: Is atheism a religion[W:711:831]

  1. #611
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    When people tell me that they believe in god out of faith then I've learned enough by this point to just let it go. Sure, there's still a part of my brain that wants to confront them and demand to know what that faith is rationally based on, but after a while you just know to pick your battles. However, it's when religious people tell me they know god exists, that god's existence is inherently obvious or want laws to be made based on their religion, then it's on like Donkey Kong.

    Anyway, Vance, you've been around here long enough to know that those make the claim have to support it. Religion claims don't get a pass.
    People 'choose' their beliefs all the time. People choose to believe in evolution without knowing what exactly they believe in. They choose to believe in the big bang because they want SOMETHING to believe in. People 'choose' love and compassion. Ridiculing people for their 'faith' in a God is fine if it makes one feel better about themselves...but when that same person doing the ridiculing has NO belief system and is themselves a slave to faith...well...it gets kinda funny at that point.

    As for religions having to 'prove' their faith...I simply disagree. You cant 'prove' a faith. Belief and faith is a choice. Many people, myself included, have experienced things in our lives that just cant be explained in any other way. Those experiences 'testify' to me...but I dont expect others to understand them or be moved by them. That doesnt mean Im not a huge fan of science, education, and development, nor does it mean I am so arrogant to suggest I 'know' and am 'right'. I 'know' what I believe. Im comfortable with that, just as I am comfortable with those that believe in science (be honest...science THEORY-which is just a different kind of faith) as the origins of life.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You suppose completely wrong but if it makes you feel better to suppose that...then you should 'believe' it to be true!

    Ah...perfect. "Evolution" (not just micro-evolution but macro?) is a proven science then? One that you accept as proven and 'know' it to be true? The evolution of species where not just ONE member of the species miraculously experienced a DNA change, but thousands simultaneously, enough for the genetic mutation to sustain the new life and species? Thats not only theorized but proven? That IS good news!
    You do know that every individual organism on the planet has mutations, correct? And that they are heritable?

    This is genetics 101, dude.

    You don't seem to know anything about evolution either.

  3. #613
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I had the impression we interpret agnosticism and atheism differently. Should that not be the case, then we agree. That would make me feel much better.
    No, we don't. You don't quite understand what agnosticism is. That is not "interpretation."

  4. #614
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You suppose completely wrong but if it makes you feel better to suppose that...then you should 'believe' it to be true!

    Ah...perfect. "Evolution" (not just micro-evolution but macro?) is a proven science then? One that you accept as proven and 'know' it to be true? The evolution of species where not just ONE member of the species miraculously experienced a DNA change, but thousands simultaneously, enough for the genetic mutation to sustain the new life and species? Thats not only theorized but proven? That IS good news!
    So what biological or logical barriers prevent microevolution from becoming macroevolution?

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The evolution of species where not just ONE member of the species miraculously experienced a DNA change, but thousands simultaneously, enough for the genetic mutation to sustain the new life and species?
    Perhaps you should learn what the theory of evolution really says. Saying "thousands simultaneously" highlights in big bold neon colors that you have a lack of understanding of that which you are arguing against.
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  6. #616
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    You do know that every individual organism on the planet has mutations, correct? And that they are heritable?

    This is genetics 101, dude.

    You don't seem to know anything about evolution either.
    Intraspecies mutation? Of course. Microevolution? You bet...its an easily proven fact. Thats the low hanging fruit.

    Now...MACRO evolution and the development of complex organisms? You are offering that as a proven fact?

  7. #617
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    As if you know a damn thing in the world about it.

    Anyway, yours is a pretty lame attempt at a "gotcha." You already know that in casual society people who assert there is no deity are still called atheists, although they didn't used to be in proper philosophy. Philosophy has tried to sort of adjust to this, since the battle of the meaning of English words is already lost, by inventing the terms "positive atheist" and "gnostic atheist" and others.

    So, in other words, people like you just don't know what words mean, and yet have this urge to assert ignorant opinions about it. It's the same reason people now believe that agnosticism means "I don't know if there are deities" and people think nihilism is either being emo or believing nothing exists. People are just phenomenally ignorant about philosophy.
    No "gotcha" intended, I asked you a serious question so no need to get offended.

    Perhaps, rather than just claiming that everyone else is an idiot, it's just that dictionary definitions take precedence over the musings of the bluestocking crowd of philosophers. That doesn't come down to ignorance so much as prioritization.

    Academically, I can see how there is a difference between the claim that there is a lack of evidence in which to believe something and a claim that something simply doesn't exist.

    Practically and in the real world, however, such a distinction does not exist. Like I told you before, the human mind doesn't work that way. You either believe that god/gods exist, or you don't... and you make your best judgement based on your past and on the evidence you've examined.

    Belief does not equal certainty. Neither does belief require absolute proof.

  8. #618
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    People 'choose' their beliefs all the time. People choose to believe in evolution without knowing what exactly they believe in. They choose to believe in the big bang because they want SOMETHING to believe in. People 'choose' love and compassion. Ridiculing people for their 'faith' in a God is fine if it makes one feel better about themselves...but when that same person doing the ridiculing has NO belief system and is themselves a slave to faith...well...it gets kinda funny at that point.

    As for religions having to 'prove' their faith...I simply disagree. You cant 'prove' a faith. Belief and faith is a choice. Many people, myself included, have experienced things in our lives that just cant be explained in any other way. Those experiences 'testify' to me...but I dont expect others to understand them or be moved by them. That doesnt mean Im not a huge fan of science, education, and development, nor does it mean I am so arrogant to suggest I 'know' and am 'right'. I 'know' what I believe. Im comfortable with that, just as I am comfortable with those that believe in science (be honest...science THEORY-which is just a different kind of faith) as the origins of life.
    I'm not sure what you mean when you say you're a "fan of science," but based on everything you've said here I'm pretty sure you don't really know what it is. Science is more than warp speed travel and mad scientists working in a lab filled with tesla coils.

    1)So you're a creationist, then. Alright, but I'll just say that I've never once seen a Creationist demonstrate an understanding of what it means.
    2)Nobody believes in the Big Bang because they need SOMETHING to believe in. They believe in it because to date it represent the closest approximation of where the universe began. Matter is flying out from a single point, hence the big bang theory. I don't think I've heard anyone claim definitely how it happened, or what was there before it.
    2a)further showing you don't know what science is, science doesn't seek to explain "why", but what and how.
    3)After all this time you should know what the proper definition of theory is when discussing science. Spoiler alert: it doesn't mean "a hunch or a fuzzy guess."

  9. #619
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by marduc View Post
    Perhaps you should learn what the theory of evolution really says. Saying "thousands simultaneously" highlights in big bold neon colors that you have a lack of understanding of that which you are arguing against.
    For a MUTATION to be sustainable it would HAVE to occur with thousands of member of the species in order for it to be sustained over the subsequent generations.

  10. #620
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean when you say you're a "fan of science," but based on everything you've said here I'm pretty sure you don't really know what it means.

    1)So you're a creationist, then. Alright, but I'll just say that I've never once seen a Creationist demonstrate an understanding of what it means.
    2)Nobody believes in the Big Bang because they need SOMETHING to believe in. They believe in it because to date it represent the closest approximation of where the universe began. Matter is flying out from a single point, hence the big bang theory. I don't think I've heard anyone claim definitely how it happened, or what was there before it.
    2a)further showing you don't know what science is, science doesn't seek to explain "why", but what and how.
    3)After all this time you should know what the proper definition of theory is when discussing science. Spoiler alert: it doesn't mean "a hunch or a fuzzy guess."
    Right. You 'believe' in the Big bang because its what the current theory holds. Is it proven? Is it 'true'?

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