View Poll Results: Is atheism a religion

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Thread: Is atheism a religion[W:711:831]

  1. #501
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    First of all, it's not a religious belief. It's a scientific belief that a concept so foreign to all known laws of physics can be considered probable. That's not a religious belief. Just because someone else worships the idea of a super-natural gobblin, doesn't make my dismissal of the idea religious (based on their worship).
    It's a belief about a religion. Is it demographic (ie, Sunnis live in Anbar)? No? Is it actually about the beliefs themselves? Okay, it's a religious belief.

    Wikipedia:

    This does not describe the singular belief that there isn't a metaphysical universe ruled by a supernatural monster that's flying around in space.
    And the beliefs you hold? They're about that.

    Still does not describe a disbelief in things that are extremely improbable.
    Describes a belief about them.

    Nope, still doesn't do it.
    Does it describe a belief about them?

    We could go through every reference on language there is, and they'll all say the same thing. If you've redefined the word "religion" to mean "a belief or disbelief in something", you can't expect the rest of the world to start using your new definition just because you're so special.
    We can't.

    Second of all, a single religious belief is not a religion. Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Baha'i all believe in the same god, but they're all very different religions. To say that a belief or disbelief in a supernatural entity is, in itself, a religion would mean that those are all just different denominations of teh same religion, which is very far from any standard definition.
    Stop. You have a belief about the universe.

    I know you feel very strongly that the definition of "religion" you've made up is better than the one the rest of the English-speaking world uses, but that's not really meaningful to anyone but you.
    No, it's the same definition. Stop being so scared.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Deism is a watchmaker God, God set in motion things and then left. That's not the same thing as lack of belief in any God. A deist believes in a God, it's just not clear what that God is.
    You're mistaking a Deist and a deist. Like confusing Islamism and Islam.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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  3. #503
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Unadulterated absence of belief in a god is atheism. Do we need to pull the dictionary back out? You don't have to believe in any god to be a member of or practice a deistic religion.
    You needed to have the last word...you have it. Good on you, Jerry. I don't need a dictionary to understand the dynamics of your inability to be intellectually honest. May the force be with you, Jerry.

  4. #504
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    First, that's not totally true.
    We believe, due to Lack of proof, or even Any Evidence, there's isn't/highly-probably-isn't a god.
    So you believe there's not a god. That's a belief. About the idea of god....that's what a religious belief is.

    If you're agnostic, and you don't claim to know, things get murkier.

    IF evidence surfaced of a god (which probably won't happen and probably wouldn't be your 'god', since there are so many), I think I can speak for any atheist in saying we'd be delighted at this amazing development and it would then be demonstrated for us precisely what he's done/doing.
    I don't have a god.

    Former poster here C Gerstle:
    "To call Atheism a religion is to call bald a hair color.
    No, it's like calling bald a hair style. And it is.

    To be honest, "atheist" is a word that shouldn't even exist. No one has to acknowledge themselves as a "non-alchemist" or "non-astrologist."
    But it does. Wouldn't that be nice though, we could just get rid of words we don't like?

    The word "atheist" only exists because dogmatists outnumber the skeptics in this case."
    Atheists can't be dogmatic?

    IOW, Does you Not believing in Astrology make you an active 'believer'/religionist in something else?
    It makes me a believer in the idea of astrology being bull****.

    No.
    Yes. I believe astrology is bull****. That's a belief that I have.

    It's only because, as Gerstle says, that people who happen TO believe are in great Majority, that Non-believers even get Painted with the/A word 'Atheist', much less constitute a 'religion'.
    It's a religious belief.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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  5. #505
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    It's a belief about a religion. Stop. You have a belief about the universe.
    A "religious belief" is not a belief about religion. It's a belief in religion. Here are some links.

    religious belief - definition of religious belief by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
    Noun 1. religious belief - a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destinyreligious belief - a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"

    https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionar...gious%20belief
    a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny

    Religious belief | Define Religious belief at Dictionary.com

    noun
    a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality" [syn: religion]

    Because the belief is about religion doesn't mean the belief is religious in nature. It may well be a belief about the physical nature of the universe, making it a physics belief, or a belief about the sociological and psychological need for religion, making it a psychological or sociological belief. "Religious" doesn't necessarily describe the nature of the belief, regardless of what the topic of the belief is.

    Believing the FSM is not real is not a religious belief. It's a belief about religion, but it is not religious in nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    It's a belief about a religion. Stop. You have a belief about the universe.
    Yes, and it's grounded in physics, not in religion. It's a scientific belief, not a religious belief. "Religious belief" does not describe the topic of a belief, but the nature of it.

    If you believe that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, it is most likely a religious belief, meaning that it's based on religion, but it could be evidence based, if you have gotten a great deal of bad information about ecology, biology, chemistry, and physics, then it would be an incorrect scientific belief, not a religious belief.

    Or whatever. You don't seem to be open to the idea that you have misdefined something, so I guess that makes your belief about atheism being a religion, a religion, right?
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

  6. #506
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    A "religious belief" is not a belief about religion. It's a belief in religion. Here are some links.
    No, it's not.

    religious belief - definition of religious belief by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
    Noun 1. religious belief - a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destinyreligious belief - a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"

    https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionar...gious%20belief
    a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny

    Religious belief | Define Religious belief at Dictionary.com

    noun
    a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality" [syn: religion]
    The words 'religious' and 'belief' don't take on some different meaning when joined together just because you think it should. Believing that there is not a god is a religious belief. I'm very sorry. I don't know why that bothers you so much, but it's true.

    Because the belief is about religion doesn't mean the belief is religious in nature.
    That's very true.

    It may well be a belief about the physical nature of the universe, making it a physics belief, or a belief about the sociological and psychological need for religion, making it a psychological or sociological belief. "Religious" doesn't necessarily describe the nature of the belief, regardless of what the topic of the belief is.
    That's true. But if it's about the absence or existence of a god, it's a religious belief. You have a religious belief. You must now come to terms with that, I guess.

    Believing the FSM is not real is not a religious belief. It's a belief about religion, but it is not religious in nature.
    Uhhh...if anyone actually does believe it's real, that's a religious belief.

    Yes, and it's grounded in physics, not in religion. It's a scientific belief, not a religious belief. "Religious belief" does not describe the topic of a belief, but the nature of it.
    lol, no it's not.

    If you believe that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old, it is most likely a religious belief, meaning that it's based on religion, but it could be evidence based, if you have gotten a great deal of bad information about ecology, biology, chemistry, and physics, then it would be an incorrect scientific belief, not a religious belief.
    There's no science about things beyond the omniverse (if they exist), so it doesn't matter.

    Or whatever. You don't seem to be open to the idea that you have misdefined something, so I guess that makes your belief about atheism being a religion, a religion, right?
    How ironic. Sure. I don't have the issue that some do here, wherein I whine and cry when it turns out that my belief about religions could be construed as religious. It doesn't bother me, and I'm agnostic. It apparently bothers the **** out of some atheists, though. Do you think it's just that they have a kneejerk reaction to being associated with religion in any way that isn't belligerent towards it?
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  7. #507
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    There are some people for whom belief in a "higher power" is much less an act of will than it is of direct subjective apprehension, perhaps in a manner analogous to how some people are gifted with perfect pitch. Conversely, there are many people (perhaps most people) who are not so gifted and for whom belief in a higher power is dependent upon timely persuasion plus the will to believe. An atheist could be described as someone who either lacks this direct subjective apprehension of a higher power and remains unpersuaded by the reports of others in its existence, or who does possess this direct apprehension but willfully dismisses it as delusional.
    It's like you're dreaming of Gorgonzola when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.

  8. #508
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    So you believe there's not a god. That's a belief. About the idea of god....that's what a religious belief is.
    I don't believe astrology either. Is that a 'Religion'?

    Quote Originally Posted by OWO
    Quote Originally Posted by mbig
    F evidence surfaced of a god (which probably won't happen and probably wouldn't be your 'god', since there are so many), I think I can speak for any atheist in saying we'd be delighted at this amazing development and it would then be demonstrated for us precisely what he's done/doing.
    I don't have a god.
    Wonderful, but that Does NOT answer my statement that IF Evidence of a god emerged, any atheist would be glad to accept it, just like they have has accepted other [factual/evidentiary] "beliefs". You didn't categorically answer, you gratuitously spouted zero.

    Therein lies much of your Semantic BS be it unwittting or more likely Disingenuity.
    I've made many posts on this, I call it the "Everything is just a belief"... FALLACY.
    I believe that there is Evolution. There is/are Millions of pieces of Confirmatory EVIDENCE for this "belief".
    In religion, one has BLIND "FAITH" in things NOT IN EVIDENCE
    .

    It's an attempt at False Equivalence to call everything just a "belief".
    "See, I believe in god, but you don't" we both just have opinions"
    Religion is "Faith" in something that has NO Evidence.
    If it had evidence, it might rise to a hypothesis or even Theory, but religion by Definition, is Faith/Blind belief.

    In addition to that Fallacy you have compounded your Logic-Fracture by trying to make Every simple 'belief', be it Fact-based or not, into a religion.
    Ridiculous BS.

    Quote Originally Posted by OWO
    No, it's like calling bald a hair style. And it is.
    Not for all and Not the context of the quote. That correct inferred context being if one just has No hair.
    More Disingenuity.. attempted/Failed.

    Quote Originally Posted by OWO
    Quote Originally Posted by mbig
    To be honest, "atheist" is a word that shouldn't even exist. No one has to acknowledge themselves as a "non-alchemist" or "non-astrologist."
    But it does. Wouldn't that be nice though, we could just get rid of words we don't like?
    Another Inane/Dishonest 'reply'.
    The Point was the word was a default for people who held No belief and Only assigned them because a majority had a different view.
    Again, one doesn't call people "Non-Alchemists" and "non-astrologers".
    I hate when people like you ABUSE the multi-quote system/attempt to look categorical but really Deflect/wise-crack.

    Quote Originally Posted by OWO

    Yes. I believe astrology is bull****. That's a belief that I have.
    and again, is "NOT believing" in astrology a Religion?
    OOOOPS
    Last edited by mbig; 08-18-13 at 03:56 PM.
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  9. #509
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    I don't believe astrology either. Is that a 'Religion'?

    Wonderful, but that Does NOT answer my statement that IF Evidence of a god emerged, any atheist would be glad to accept it, just like they have has accepted other [factual/evidentiary] "beliefs". You didn't categorically answer, you gratuitously spouted zero.

    Therein lies much of your Semantic BS be it unwittting or more likely Disingenuity.
    I've made many posts on this, I call it the "Everything is just a belief"... FALLACY.
    I believe that there is Evolution. There is/are Millions of pieces of Confirmatory EVIDENCE for this "belief".
    In religion, one has BLIND "FAITH" in things NOT IN EVIDENCE
    .

    It's an attempt at False Equivalence to call everything just a "belief".
    "See, I believe in god, but you don't" we both just have opinions"
    Religion is "Faith" in something that has NO Evidence.
    If it had evidence, it might rise to a hypothesis or even Theory, but religion by Definition, is Faith/Blind belief.

    In addition to that Fallacy you have compounded your Logic-Fracture by trying to make Every simple 'belief', be it Fact-based or not, into a religion.
    Ridiculous BS.

    Not for all and Not the context of the quote. That correct inferred context being if one just has No hair.
    More Disingenuity.. attempted/Failed.

    Another Inane/Dishonest 'reply'.
    The Point was the word was a default for people who held No belief and Only assigned them because a majority had a different view.
    Again, one doesn't call people "Non-Alchemists" and "non-astrologers".
    I hate when people like you ABUSE the multi-quote system/attempt to look categorical but really Deflect/wise-crack.

    and again, is "NOT believing" in astrology a Religion?
    OOOOPS
    Astology is not a religion. Also, astrology doesn't require faith, it's just symbology.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    The words 'religious' and 'belief' don't take on some different meaning when joined together just because you think it should.
    I gave you sources, and you ignored them because the evidence demonstrated that you are incorrect. And yes, "religious" and "belief" do change when you put them together in that order. This is basic, elementary-level English grammar. "Religious" modifies belief. It qualifies the "belief" as being "religious" in nature, not as being "about religion."

    And I'm really not going to explain adjectives to you. At this point you've fallen far too short of a basic understanding of the English language for me to believe that you'll ever be able to understand why you are wrong,.
    "All that stuff I was taught about evolution, embryology, Big Bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell [the bible] teaches us how to run all our public policy and everything in society." Rep. Paul Broun (R)

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