Is atheism a religion[W:711:831]

Gimmesometruth · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

OldWorldOrder said:
Am I? I that why I specifically have three options, to include 'not knowing'?

I that why?

Try again.

Or you refuse to acknowledge that there is no distinction between believing there's a god and believing there's not one when it comes to a random belief.

This is still the crux of your argument, you are still trying to pin atheism as another form of belief. I am saying (have been for multiple pages) that belief is tossed out the window for this atheist. You refuse to accept that.....because it undercuts your argument.

Gimmesometruth · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

OldWorldOrder said:
And belief is on a spectrum.

Cash and money, in the context of 1980, are the same thing.

You refuse to understand that not all contexts are what you wish they'd be.

You still have the choice to pick a word to describe a construct without proof.....faith, fairytales.....whatever you like, but you won't. You won't do it for this debate, you apparently won't even do it for general conversation.

Is your argument so weak that it cannot have any dividing line between knowing and not knowing? Between proof and no proof?

OldWorldOrder · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

Gimmesometruth said:
I that why?

Try again.

Oh sorry: "Is that why?"

Do you think I included it as an option because I refused to allow for it? Do ya?

This is still the crux of your argument, you are still trying to pin atheism as another form of belief.

Right.

I am saying (have been for multiple pages) that belief is tossed out the window for this atheist.

I know what you're saying. And I'm saying it's not. If it actually was a lack of belief about god in any sense whatsoever, you wouldn't be posting here. You wouldn't even call yourself an atheist, as you'd have never even heard of the concept of god.

You refuse to accept that.....because it undercuts your argument.

I wouldn't believe it if I didn't believe it was true. It doesn't undercut my argument in the least. It just says "No" to it without any foundation.

lol "undercut".

That is the argument, there's no undercutting about it. That's like me saying "Silver is an element" and you come back and say "It's not an element, and you refuse to acknowledge that because it undercuts your argument!" How perceptive of you, Watson! If I conceded that silver wasn't an element, it wouldn't 'undercut' my argument; it is the argument.

All these pages and you didn't discern what the issue even was? Really?

OldWorldOrder · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

Gimmesometruth said:
You still have the choice to pick a word to describe a construct without proof.....faith, fairytales.....whatever you like, but you won't. You won't do it for this debate, you apparently won't even do it for general conversation.

I don't need to.

Is your argument so weak that it cannot have any dividing line between knowing and not knowing? Between proof and no proof?

Is yours so weak that you can't admit that you believe there is no god?

marduc · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

Ok after about 20 pages - what started as mild amusement - the ongoing weak attempt at equivocation that nobody is falling for has became quite stale, What is even more stale is how shallow and juvenile the framing of aforementioned attempts are.

OldWorldOrder · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

marduc said:
Ok after about 20 pages what started as mild amusement, the ongoing weak attempt at equivocation that nobody is falling for has became quite stale, What is even more stale is how shallow and juvenile the framing of aforementioned attempts are.

I just find it fascinating how adamant some people can be about something they desperately claim they don't care about. They care to such little extent that they've formed no belief about it whatsoever...but they'll argue that they don't for dozens of pages.

Makes me wish I was a sociology or psychology grad student, I'd have a thesis paper just sitting in front of me right now.

marduc · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

OldWorldOrder said:
I just find it fascinating how adamant some people can be about something they desperately claim they don't care about. They care to such little extent that they've formed no belief about it whatsoever...but they'll argue that they don't for dozens of pages.

Makes me wish I was a sociology or psychology grad student, I'd have a thesis paper just sitting in front of me right now.

Do you know how to define equivocation?

Gimmesometruth · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

OldWorldOrder said:
Oh sorry: "Is that why?"

Do you think I included it as an option because I refused to allow for it? Do ya?

You are confusing me with some other poster, I am not interested in your poll within a poll. I stated my position countering yours (which was not your poll). You just will not deal with what I am arguing, so either leave it or face it.

.

RightI know what you're saying. And I'm saying it's not.

Now you are trying to tell me how I think!

If it actually was a lack of belief about god in any sense whatsoever, you wouldn't be posting here. You wouldn't even call yourself an atheist, as you'd have never even heard of the concept of god.

I have not denied that there is a concept of god, that was NEVER anything I have been arguing about. You have gone from playing semantic games to trying to change my argument. You are putting words in my mouth.

I wouldn't believe it if I didn't believe it was true. It doesn't undercut my argument in the least. It just says "No" to it without any foundation. lol "undercut". That is the argument, there's no undercutting about it. That's like me saying "Silver is an element" and you come back and say "It's not an element, and you refuse to acknowledge that because it undercuts your argument!" How perceptive of you, Watson!

You have completely lost track of the conversation and are now jabbering away.

All because I asked you to choose a word that describes a construct without proof.

OldWorldOrder · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

marduc said:
Do you know how to define equivocation?

Did you know that gullible isn't even in the dictionary?

But yeah, I know they're doing it.

OldWorldOrder · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

Gimmesometruth said:
You are confusing me with some other poster, I am not interested in your poll within a poll. I stated my position countering yours (which was not your poll). You just will not deal with what I am arguing, so either leave it or face it.

Okay, then I don't care about what you're saying.

Now you are trying to tell me how I think!

Ahhh, it was okay when you were doing it to me. Is it a problem?

I have not denied that there is a concept of god, that was NEVER anything I have been arguing about. You have gone from playing semantic games to trying to change my argument. You are putting words in my mouth.

You're the one who responded to my question about it. Did I force you to?

You have completely lost track of the conversation and are now jabbering away.

Is this one of those times when it's okay for you to tell me how I think? Is it okay if I tell you how you're thinking or would that be a faux pas?

All because I asked you to choose a word that describes a construct without proof.

Please stop.

Gimmesometruth · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

OldWorldOrder said:
I don't need to.

Of course not, because that would meean the conversation would move forward, and you do not want that.

Is yours so weak that you can't admit that you believe there is no god?

You just can't wrap your mind around the fact that I don't need, use, require, want, desire....belief.

I keep telling you that I am fine with unknowns.

marduc · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

OldWorldOrder said:
Did you know that gullible isn't even in the dictionary?

But yeah, I know they're doing it.

excellent! reply #1 I get from you is a textbook continuation of equivocation, reply #2 is a textbook "I'm rubber they're glue" juvenile defense. Too bad I forgot to specifically mention projection in my initial post or people might have started to believe I was psychic

Manc Skipper · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

OldWorldOrder said:
... You wouldn't even call yourself an atheist, as you'd have never even heard of the concept of god. ...

Frankly bizarre illogic. Not having a belief in something is not dependent on never having heard of it.

OldWorldOrder · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

Gimmesometruth said:
Of course not, because that would meean the conversation would move forward, and you do not want that.

Why wouldn't I?

You just can't wrap your mind around the fact that I don't need, use, require, want, desire....belief.

Are you telling me how I think? Can I respond in kind?

I keep telling you that I am fine with unknowns.

And that's a belief that you have. I, too, am fine with unknowns. I recognize that that is a belief that I have. You, ostensibly, do not recognize that about yourself. I hope it's okay that I tell you how you think.

OldWorldOrder · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

Manc Skipper said:
Frankly bizarre illogic. Not having a belief in something is not dependent on never having heard of it.

You have a belief on everything you've ever encountered, I hate to inform you. Whether subconscious or not.

Now, if you've made a dozen posts in a thread about a topic, you certainly do. And it's almost certainly conscious, unless there's some type of debilitation or something.

OldWorldOrder · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

marduc said:
excellent! reply #1 I get from you is a textbook continuation of equivocation, reply #2 is a textbook "I'm rubber they're glue" juvenile defense. Too bad I forgot to specifically mention projection in my initial post or people might have started to believe I was psychic

That's weird. One would've imagined people that can't say what they believe because "believe" doesn't mean what most people think it means would've been the ones you were talking about. Very interesting, marduc!

marduc · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

OldWorldOrder said:
You have a belief on everything you've ever encountered, I hate to inform you. Whether subconscious or not.

Now, if you've made a dozen posts in a thread about a topic, you certainly do. And it's almost certainly conscious, unless there's some type of debilitation or something.

Equivocation happens when one’s argument hinges on a single word that has different meanings in different contexts, but one uses the word as if it has only one meaning for all situations. Remember in third grade when you would say “I love pizza” and your friends would reply with “Well then why don’t you marry it?” They knew good and well what you meant. The word “love” means different things in different contexts, and they were capitalizing on the ambivalence of the meaning in order to make a joke. The words “faith” and “belief” work the same way. If I say that I believe that the Earth revolves around the Sun, it doesn’t mean exactly the same thing as what you mean when you say you believe an invisible spirit made them. They are both beliefs, technically speaking, but they are not both faith—not, at least, in the usual sense of the word. One of those beliefs is based on empirical observation and science while the other is based on, well, something else.

source: godless in dixie | Skepticism with a bit of a drawl.

Your game is weak.

Manc Skipper · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

OldWorldOrder said:
You have a belief on everything you've ever encountered, I hate to inform you. Whether subconscious or not.

Now, if you've made a dozen posts in a thread about a topic, you certainly do. And it's almost certainly conscious, unless there's some type of debilitation or something.

Inasmuch as I believe I hold no belief in the supernatural. Your pointette is nonsensical.

Gimmesometruth · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

OldWorldOrder said:
Okay, then I don't care about what you're saying.

I know that, I knew that from your first response, this is the path of infantile argument, to come to the point of proclaiming apathy in the face of a self imposed stalemate.

Ahhh, it was okay when you were doing it to me. Is it a problem?

When? When I asked you to choose a word, your own word, to describe a construct that requires no proof?
You consider that someone telling you how to think, putting words in your mouth?

Again, you have me confused with someone else.

You're the one who responded to my question about it. Did I force you to?

I responded to your insistence that atheists believe anything. You still cannot remember the original argument.

Is this one of those times when it's okay for you to tell me how I think? Is it okay if I tell you how you're thinking or would that be a faux pas?

I am describing your actions, not the working of your mind, not your thought process.

Please stop.

No, you hang up.

OldWorldOrder · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

marduc said:
source: godless in dixie | Skepticism with a bit of a drawl.

Your game is weak.

Ahhh, an internet blog! I must duck away in defeat!

When the topic is theism, atheism, and agnosticism, what you believe is entirely what the conversation hinges upon. Does this bother you? I don't care.

OldWorldOrder · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

Manc Skipper said:
Inasmuch as I believe I hold no belief in the supernatural.

Ahh, was that so hard?!

Mach · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

So back to the simple question to you OldWorldOrder. Please define this concept you're inquiring about "no god", so we can see if the question can be answered.
Given the volume of "posts" you've written, surely you can explain your own question by showing us the premises. I mean, premises are important to a reasoned argument, surely you agree.

OldWorldOrder said:
Right. Belief. I'm not talking about faith or reason. But thanks, that was helpful of you.

Apparently you aren't understanding. Logically, it must be one of them, neither is illogical. I don't think you want to just lose the argument by denying logic (while simultaneously using it)...do you?

Belief requiring evidence.
Belief not requiring evidence.

A
not A

Logically one must be true. That you choose neither, evidences your fallacy. Please try again.

Countless people hold faith-based beliefs with no evidence or in-spite of existing evidence.

Gimmesometruth · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

OldWorldOrder said:
Why wouldn't I?

You tell me, again, choose a word that describes a construct without proof.

Are you telling me how I think? Can I respond in kind?

And a change of topic once again, playing the victim. Can you ever get to a point of accepting thoughts without belief?

And that's a belief that you have. I, too, am fine with unknowns. I recognize that that is a belief that I have. You, ostensibly, do not recognize that about yourself. I hope it's okay that I tell you how you think.

That is your contradiction, you are trying to have beliefs about not believing.

It is the snake eating its tail.

OldWorldOrder · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

Gimmesometruth said:
I know that, I knew that from your first response, this is the path of infantile argument, to come to the point of proclaiming apathy in the face of a self imposed stalemate.

Are you telling me how I think?

When? When I asked you to choose a word, your own word, to describe a construct that requires no proof?
You consider that someone telling you how to think, putting words in your mouth?

Again, you have me confused with someone else.[/quote]

It's okay when you do it. Got it.

I responded to your insistence that atheists believe anything. You still cannot remember the original argument.

And there you go. Telling me how I think. Why did you have such a problem with it when I did if you're so disposed to doing it yourself?

I am describing your actions, not the working of your mind, not your thought process.

No, you're not, dear.

No, you hang up.

You're becoming increasingly nonsensical.

OldWorldOrder · Aug 22, 2013

Re: Is atheism a religion

Gimmesometruth said:
You tell me, again, choose a word that describes a construct without proof.

Sympathy.

And a change of topic once again, playing the victim. Can you ever get to a point of accepting thoughts without belief?

Can you ever get to a point of accepting that all thoughts have intrinsic beliefs? Can you ever get to that plane of understanding?

That is your contradiction, you are trying to have beliefs about not believing.

There is your problem.

It is the snake eating its tail.

lol

Yes, that's the nature of the idea of consciousness.

Is atheism a religion[W:711:831]

Is atheism a religion

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