View Poll Results: Is atheism a religion

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Thread: Is atheism a religion[W:711:831]

  1. #151
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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    If the proposition is "God exists" you might hold a strong belief in its veracity, no belief in its veracity, or any level in between.
    That seems very different than what you said before. "you either believe it or you don't." A level of belief in between would neither be believing it does exist nor believing it doesn't.
    There should be Instant Runoff Voting

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    By defining religion atheism does not fit.

    religion- The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.

    Atheists do not recognize a superhuman controlling power especially a personal God or gods.

    The end.

    Amazing 16 pages later and some are still looking at an orange and trying to make it into an apple.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    But having no belief in it's veracity does not mean you have a strong belief in the opposite proposition.
    Yes, precisely. Many Buddhists fall into this category - they do not believe in God, but do not hold a strong belief the other way. To them, it's not a terribly important question, so some may say "probably not, but what does it matter" and others might say "there probably is something out there bigger than me, but what does it matter."

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    I'm not talking about concepts, I'm talking about simple propositions (many of which may make up a single concept). The proposition "God exists" is either true or false - and yes, just by knowing it you'll assign some level of belief.
    Well, actually...there's another option, which would fall under the category of agnostic's answer, and that is, "I don't know." And actually an agnostic might answer "false".

    Atheists simply have an absence of belief. For an atheist..."god" just doesn't compute..."god" isnt a logical conclusion to the question of "who or what created the universe". So in my opinion, the proposition doesn't require an admission of a belief. There's nothing to believe or disbelieve.

    Would you ponder the proposition: "The Easter Bunny Exists" TRUE____FALSE____.

    I bet that the easter bunny just doesn't compute to you...or it's not logical...so you don't feel the need to determine whether it's true or false...or even say, "I don't know". In your mind...there's nothing to consider...because there's nothing to believe or disbelieve. An easter bunny to you is a fantasy/fictitious character in a child's mind. It doesn't require the time or energy to form a belief one way or another.

    But in the end, when a proposition or question is asked like you one you posed...an atheist would most likely be forced to say, "False" or "No" or "I don't believe god exist" for the sake of brevity. It's rarely worth the trouble trying to make a person understand why one is an atheist.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Nay, even that school which is most accused of atheism doth most demonstrate religion; that is, the school of Leucippus and Democritus and Epicurus. For it is a thousand times more credible, that four mutable elements, and one immutable fifth essence, duly and eternally placed, need no God, than that an army of infinite small portions, or seeds unplaced, should have produced this order and beauty, without a divine marshal. The Scripture saith, The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God; it is not said, The fool hath thought in his heart; so as he rather saith it, by rote to himself, as that he would have, than that he can thoroughly believe it, or be persuaded of it. For none deny, there is a God, but those, for whom it maketh that there were no God. It appeareth in nothing more, that atheism is rather in the lip, than in the heart of man, than by this; that atheists will ever be talking of that their opinion, as if they fainted in it, within themselves, and would be glad to be strengthened, by the consent of others. Nay more, you shall have atheists strive to get disciples, as it fareth with other sects. And, which is most of all, you shall have of them, that will suffer for atheism, and not recant; whereas if they did truly think, that there were no such thing as God, why should they trouble themselves?
    Essays of Francis Bacon - Of Atheism (The Essays or Counsels, Civil and Moral, of Francis Ld. Verulam Viscount St. Albans)

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    That seems very different than what you said before. "you either believe it or you don't." A level of belief in between would neither be believing it does exist nor believing it doesn't.
    Oh, sorry - that was in response to the idea of someone holding "no belief." But I do think it's either one way or the other, the difference being that someone can have very strong beliefs or very weak "probably true" or "probably false" beliefs

    We can conceptualize a space in between where the person is completely neutral and objective, but if our brains really worked that way there would be no need to learn logic or critical thinking skills - it would all come naturally. I know that there is no rational basis for believing that invisible unicorns don't exist (or exist) - but while I can claim to believe this until I'm blue in the face, the truth is that I really don't - I don't believe in invisible unicorns.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Well, actually...there's another option, which would fall under the category of agnostic's answer, and that is, "I don't know." And actually an agnostic might answer "false".
    Agnostics might answer lots of things, but what a person professes to believe or wants to believe is often not consistent with what they truly believe.

    Would you ponder the proposition: "The Easter Bunny Exists" TRUE____FALSE____.

    I bet that the easter bunny just doesn't compute to you...or it's not logical...so you don't feel the need to determine whether it's true or false...or even say, "I don't know". In your mind...there's nothing to consider...because there's nothing to believe or disbelieve. An easter bunny to you is a fantasy/fictitious character in a child's mind. It doesn't require the time or energy to form a belief one way or another.

    But in the end, when a proposition or question is asked like you one you posed...an atheist would most likely be forced to say, "False" or "No" or "I don't believe god exist" for the sake of brevity. It's rarely worth the trouble trying to make a person understand why one is an atheist.
    I think I get the point you're making, and agree to an extent - I prefaced my comments earlier by saying that this applies to people who understand the proposition and have actually had an opportunity to "process" it.

    Still, even if I were to provide you with a proposition for which you have no real way to judge its veracity - the Honduras diver beetle lives longer than any other beetle - you will STILL assign some level of belief based on how credible you think I am, how accurate you believe these sorts of facts to be in general, etc.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I don't think atheism can be called "a lack of belief." Atheists are strong believers in a list of things including:

    - There is no intelligent creator
    - In some cases, people of faith should have limited rights with respect to speech, participation in government and the rearing of their children
    - Conclusive views on the random nature of origin of life
    Whoa, back up. Atheism is nothing more than the lack of belief in a supreme deity. That's it. Of course atheists may have political and ideological beliefs about religious freedoms, or lack thereof, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with atheism. I am an atheist. I believe freedom of religion is the foundation upon which this country is based, and is sacrosync... all religions. I have political and ideological opinions about enforcing the beliefs of any religion on all of society, in the same manner that Christians would object to being subjected to enforced Muslim or Jewish on all of society. That has nothing to do with my lack of belief in a supreme deity.

    Atheism is not a religion. It is a lack of belief in a supreme deity, that is all. Any other opinions and ideologies formed about the society in which we live are derived the same way any religious person's opinions and ideology is derived; by our personal opinion on various issues, personal morality on various issues, and our personal views of right and wrong.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    In my honest opinion atheism could be better described as a rational rejection of the supernatural, rather than a religion.

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    Re: Is atheism a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Agnostics might answer lots of things, but what a person professes to believe or wants to believe is often not consistent with what they truly believe.


    I think I get the point you're making, and agree to an extent - I prefaced my comments earlier by saying that this applies to people who understand the proposition and have actually had an opportunity to "process" it.

    Still, even if I were to provide you with a proposition for which you have no real way to judge its veracity - the Honduras diver beetle lives longer than any other beetle - you will STILL assign some level of belief based on how credible you think I am, how accurate you believe these sorts of facts to be in general, etc.


    Taylor, I guess we've hit an impasse...as I do understand your point, however, that only takes me back to:

    Let me try again. In my opinion, the absence of a belief is the way to frame my "belief system " regarding a god or creator of the universe. And that is comment sounds almost like, if not completely like, an oxymoron.

    However...

    My answer "False" to your proposition isn't an admission of a belief when, in my humble opinion, the answer options list for the proposition is incomplete. The list should contain TRUE - FALSE - I DON'T KNOW - GOD WHO?

    If I had my ruthers...I'd simply answer, "God Who?", if it were on your answer options. But in the real world, people wouldn't let it go at that and want some more explicit answer. And I'd have to say: For truth atheists...god just doesn't compute.

    Okay, Taylor, I've pretty much beaten my side of the dead horse smooth off.

    Thanks...

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