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Thread: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into families?

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Its not just gay marriage, its the blizzard like onslaught of such unreflected change to society...
    I think gay marriage has been reflected upon plenty at this point, and while its become clear to me that the arguments against it are vapid and superficial, the ramifications of not legalizing it for a large number of people are real and substantial.

    In my opinion humans can only withstand and adapt to so much change. With much of this change being counterproductive, the strain is greater....
    this desire to be anti all that has gone before and that has withstood the tests of time, well... I for one am glad I am getting older and hope the whole thing that is surely gonna collapse, does so after I go. I will fight it to the end as I have a debt of gratitude to those who can before and want to pay it forward for our posterity. I was given much having hit the lottery just by being born in this still great country... but the generation before and my generation have done great damage to this place and I feel sorry for those having to come up in the future very uncertain years...
    Well, firstly, I'm not an advocate of blind change for the sake change. But at the same time, we must acknowledge that change can occasionally be good as well. If change were not good at times, this forum would be pointless, as any advocacy would be unnecessary because everything would be as it should be.

    Many, in the guise of some transcendent social progression, choose to ignore the lessons of the past and instead choose to repeat mistakes or break fundamental human boundaries because they see previous human intellect as inferior. The problem is that you, in this argument at least, are jumping to the opposite extreme, and claiming all ideas of the past are sacrosanct, and we dare not reexamine them. Everything we have as a society is brought about through thoughtful reexamination of our customs. We would not have America or religion that you likely hold dear nor the sophisticated understanding of human dignity that we have today without this balance.

    Studying are past can be a very useful tool in shaping the present, but I imagine if you (and to the OP's point, many hardline social conservatives) did a rigorous study on the history of the policies you advocate you may discover both that you do not like their origins and that they are not quite as old and time-tested as you believe.
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Here is what the first guy said, whatever his name is: "how long will it take until socially conservative mass movements, no longer strictly bound to the Baby Boomer literalist evangelism that has defined them for four decades, accept gay marriage."

    Correct? I mean you say you are "a reasonable and intelligent person", right?

    I said this: "how long is it until we have total anarchy? How long until nobody gives a damn about anything at all anymore?"

    How is my "how" question any less of an applicable how question than his is? His is his interpretation of how events will play out, mine is mine... so, what is your beef, bubba? Or excuse me, Boo?
    Because one doesn't equal the other. Losing wrong headed literal reading of the Bible isn't equal to not giving a damn.

    BTW, you left part of the quote off (suggesting you know how it changes the meaning). So allow me yo give the entire quote:



    Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate
    So, what you are really asking is how long is it until we have total anarchy? How long until nobody gives a damn about anything at all anymore?
    Last edited by Boo Radley; 08-04-13 at 07:26 PM.

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    What's the purpose in life ? Survival and to propagate. It's normal. The bird do it and the bees do it.

    prop·a·gate
    /ˈpräpəˌgāt/Verb
    1.Breed specimens of (a plant, animal, etc.) by natural processes from the parent stock.
    2.(of a plant, animal, etc.) Reproduce in such a way: "the plant propagates from stem cuttings".
    It's interesting how many on the right suddenly adopt a form of moral Darwinism when it comes to this issue.

    We're not simple animals, we don't live merely to breed and further our genes. To give any substantial purpose to it is to demean what humanity has come to mean.
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    What exactly do you feel is being forced on you? How does someone else's marriage affect you?
    Affects society. I know, as a socialist you really do not care about society as it is presently constructed. I do however, I like the freedoms, the prosperity, the stability and feeling of security such things bring. That death, torture and gulag work camp stuff not so much, yanno what I am talking about? Hey, your sour cup of tea is just not mine, I like being happy and alive.



    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    How are any of those things bad? Religious doctrines have changed many times during history. It used to be a sin to charge interest on a loan. The preaching against gays will give way. Religions aren't actually as fixed as they like to pretend they are. The Boy Scouts, as a private organization, altered their stance to better please their customers. That's what a business is supposed to do. And as we have already long since established, banning SSM is unconstitutional.
    No no no, question is how are these things good? Whatever happened to just leave us alone, that tolerance once called for but now simply insufficient? We did, we bent over backwards to come that distance, we tolerated and now that side has become so intolerant of us just being tolerant...why is that? Do they not appreciate that effort we made, even though what they were doing is like, ewwww, gross, we dont even want to think about it? I mean, that, you gotta admit, is a really big step, right? I mean, if we are being totally honest here.

    If not appreciated for what we have done, should we even care if they don't appreciate if we do not allow them their every whim? Will they care that I, and many others, just do not agree with going this far and we are not going to allow them this?

    Yes, you are a change agent... how is it society is not working for you individually? How is it being forced on you, couldn't you move or just adapt? Why does everyone else have to change for you and your causes? Are you lonely, need friends and cannot find them here... is there no succor sufficient in society the way it is currently constructed for you, too much freedom, need that strong fist of government to tell you and all others what to do? You feel the need to conform to the state's will and force everyone else to change as do you, despite their own wishes to the contrary, do you?

    Where is it that you find these truly bizarre notions, did your parents put you in the basement and force Das Capital on you? And how did you arrive at the peculiarly false impression that banning SSM is unconstitutional, did you go to a socialist seminar where they informed of these "facts"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    What exactly do you mean by "heterophobe"? Do you think anyone is actually attempting to discriminate against heterosexuals? Seriously, what are you losing besides the ability to freely oppress people because of your religion? Besides, why not preach something constructive like "feed the hungry" instead?
    What might you, with that eraser sharp intellect of yours, suppose heterophobe might mean, huh? Do you think anyone is actually attempting to discriminate against homosexuals? Seriously, what are you losing besides your ability to freely oppress the majority of normal people in order to please the few...is that not a tyranny of the minority...is it because you lack any spiritual being, that you are anti religious? And besides, why don't YOU feed the hungry instead of this? Time to grow up Paschie...its that time, cannot live in the fantasy world when you attain a certain age... or at least you shouldn't...
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    It's interesting how many on the right suddenly adopt a form of moral Darwinism when it comes to this issue.

    We're not simple animals, we don't live merely to breed and further our genes. To give any substantial purpose to it is to demean what humanity has come to mean.
    I can care less if someone is gay or not.
    I can care less if married hetrosexual couples refuse to proagate. It's their choice but it's not normal.

    The act of propagation can be fun and it feels good. Pretending to be propagating can also be fun and feels good.

    My neighbor has a gay dog and we make fun of him when he's sodomizing the German Shepherd down the street. But when the leftist activist make gay dogs a protective group, we won't be allowed to make fun of him any more.

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    I can care less if someone is gay or not.
    I can care less if married hetrosexual couples refuse to proagate. It's their choice but it's not normal.

    The act of propagation can be fun and it feels good. Pretending to be propagating can also be fun and feels good.

    My neighbor has a gay dog and we make fun of him when he's sodomizing the German Shepherd down the street. But when the leftist activist make gay dogs a protective group, we won't be allowed to make fun of him any more.
    That sounds terrible for the German Shepard down the street.
    One who makes himself a worm cannot complain when tread upon.

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Because one doesn't equal the other. Losing wrong headed literal reading of the Bible isn't equal to not giving a damn.

    BTW, you left part of the quote off (suggesting you know how it changes the meaning). So allow me yo give the entire quote:
    I have no idea what you are even saying with that first statement. Seems nonsensical to me.

    The addition does not change a thing of what I said, that is my interpretation of what is really meant there, not his interpretation of coming events, but mine... and he has his own idea of what will happen. So?
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    I can care less if someone is gay or not.
    I can care less if married hetrosexual couples refuse to proagate. It's their choice but it's not normal.

    The act of propagation can be fun and it feels good. Pretending to be propagating can also be fun and feels good.

    My neighbor has a gay dog and we make fun of him when he's sodomizing the German Shepherd down the street. But when the leftist activist make gay dogs a protective group, we won't be allowed to make fun of him any more.
    Thanks for a crude post that drags this thread right down into the mud.

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    What exactly do you feel is being forced on you? How does someone else's marriage affect you?


    I didn't say, "me". Go back, read all my posts, then come back and ask me questions about what I actually said rather than what I didn't. Thank you, sir.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    I think gay marriage has been reflected upon plenty at this point, and while its become clear to me that the arguments against it are vapid and superficial, the ramifications of not legalizing it for a large number of people are real and substantial.
    Totally disagree with the arguments this side being the least bit vapid and superficial, I rather find the opposing viewpoints by far the more vacuous and disingenuous. The number of people affected would be on the order of 1-2%, so at least 98% not affected...so I fail to see where you are arriving at these ramifications for a large number of people, care to elucidate your point? Besides, long term health of a nation is at risk. This attempt by the left to make man and woman indistinguishable from one another is negatively trans-formative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    Well, firstly, I'm not an advocate of blind change for the sake change. But at the same time, we must acknowledge that change can occasionally be good as well. If change were not good at times, this forum would be pointless, as any advocacy would be unnecessary because everything would be as it should be.
    No doubt. Our objective should be towards the better outcome long term.

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    Many, in the guise of some transcendent social progression, choose to ignore the lessons of the past and instead choose to repeat mistakes or break fundamental human boundaries because they see previous human intellect as inferior. The problem is that you, in this argument at least, are jumping to the opposite extreme, and claiming all ideas of the past are sacrosanct, and we dare not reexamine them. Everything we have as a society is brought about through thoughtful reexamination of our customs. We would not have America or religion that you likely hold dear nor the sophisticated understanding of human dignity that we have today without this balance.
    You will have to point out where I have gone to the opposite extreme and claim all ideas of the past are untouchable. You cannot get that from our conversation...and I dare say from any conversation I have ever [ and I do not use absolutes like ever very often ] had, its not something I believe and again, I do not use absolutes lightly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Republic Now! View Post
    Studying are past can be a very useful tool in shaping the present, but I imagine if you (and to the OP's point, many hardline social conservatives) did a rigorous study on the history of the policies you advocate you may discover both that you do not like their origins and that they are not quite as old and time-tested as you believe.
    Well, I leave you to prove that point or leave it unproven. Perhaps one good example, since you brought it up, will do.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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