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Thread: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into families?

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    I see that social conservatives in this thread are deliberately misrepresenting my position, which is: that it would be more profitable, both politically and programmatically, for social conservatives to emphasize a monogamous relationship structure for straights and gays alike, and to fight promiscuity by both, than to continue trying to exclude one from the family social form.
    Is your contention that same gender couples cannot maintain a monogamous relationship without approval of society? If you need societal approval, no matter who you are, to maintain a monogamous relationship you are lacking in morals.

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconvenience of too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Not at all. That is, however, the implied - apparent - position of those social conservatives who embrace the use of State coercion to maintain monogamy as the default form of interpersonal romantic relationships. I have merely suggested they expand their definition of 'monogamous family' while cracking down on things like promiscuity.

  3. #103
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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    Not at all. That is, however, the implied - apparent - position of those social conservatives who embrace the use of State coercion to maintain monogamy as the default form of interpersonal romantic relationships. I have merely suggested they expand their definition of 'monogamous family' while cracking down on things like promiscuity.
    Exactly how do you propose such "cracking down on things like promiscuity" be implemented? Shall we go back to laws against adultery?

    It is beyond boring the constant and continuing presumption that only "Social Conservatives" have issues with same gender marriage. I keep waiting for a definition of a "Social Conservative". Every little pea brain group accuses "Social Conservatives" of every malfeasance in existence. I DO NOT believe every individual agrees with every stance in current defined political spheres.

    A few weeks ago, inadvertently, I was thrown onto a survey to determine what I am politically. The survey proved what many have said about me. I am a schizoid. I fit NO party at all! My ballot at election time is a nightmare for those tallying.

    As a boring personal note, NO ONE on this site could be more "conservative" on issues such as manners, apparel, language and the written word.

    Be well.

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconvenience of too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by AuntiE View Post
    It has been my experience in life, no matter the issue, the louder the shouting over an issue the harder to bring about change.
    That's just who Americans are. You would think that some folks--I won't say who--would have figured that out by now, were it not for the fact that they are so out of touch with what being an American really is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    When are the Libbos going to stop trying to force their beliefs on everyone else? Why not just shutup about it and let people come around on their own; the end result of that might be much more to your liking.
    You mean like denying gays the right to marry. Yes, that is imposing your beliefs on some one else. But I don't think that's liberals doing that. And certainly conservatives have sent outsiders into states to demonize SSM. Both sides have likely sent people in, but the point is conservatives can hardly feign innocence.

    Read MLKs Letter From a Birmingham Jail. I think it covers the notion of just shutting and letting it come around rather well.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #106
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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Exactly. You running their lives, something think is quite ok to do. So, running someone's life is perfectly acceptable to you. If it ever happens to you, don't whine.

    However, normal is a useless term.

    And, it matters not one bit if you have successfully legalized bigotry in 31 states. That's been done before, and over turned before. So don't get too comfortable.
    Sounds like you got a problem of bigotry of your own.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Sounds like you got a problem of bigotry of your own.
    Not At all.

    It is not bigotry to oppose bigotry. That's another false, pardon the word, meme use today. As a Catholic, I'm fine with religious beliefs. As an American I'm for freedom to believe differently. My marriage will be just fine if we allow SSM.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #108
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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    Unfortunately, the old gay liberationists/ActUP/queer politics folks of the 1970s through the 1990s have conceded defeat. All they want now is to get married and grow conservative. No anarchy to be had, alas.
    A solid point. The victory of the gay marriage movement is the demise of radical queer politics, it's the essence of conservatism: Gays no longer wish to express the uniqueness of their identity, they want a white picket fence and the tax benefits to go with it. How long will it take for social conservatives to accept gay marriage and gays enough to focus on integration as a political strut? I'm not sure. How long will it take for gays to desire assimilation into mainstream American cultural life including the nuclear family and all that goes with it? It's already happened.

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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not At all.

    It is not bigotry to oppose bigotry. That's another false, pardon the word, meme use today. As a Catholic, I'm fine with religious beliefs. As an American I'm for freedom to believe differently. My marriage will be just fine if we allow SSM.
    I ll be just fine, happy in fact, if they don't. Sounds kinda hypocritical to be a Catholic, believe in the bible yet advocate in behalf of certain kinds of sinning, but if you can get over the bigotry in other matters, I guess being a hypocrite isn't so bad either and easy to just ignore... oh, and let me tell you there is bigotry out there, calling anybody, as is done here in these rooms, homophobes just if you do not agree to allow SSM... that is bigotry most certainly.

    I used to be tolerant, didn t want to know what people did in their bedrooms, etc...., but some just have to throw it in your face and most are not satisfied with just tolerance, now they want more... I am unwilling to give any more than tolerance... certainly do not intend to encourage what is by definition a deviant lifestyle... why would we do that, why would we confuse our kids so? That is just not right.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

  10. #110
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    Re: When will social conservatives reorient to focus on integrating gays into familie

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    I ll be just fine, happy in fact, if they don't. Sounds kinda hypocritical to be a Catholic, believe in the bible yet advocate in behalf of certain kinds of sinning, but if you can get over the bigotry in other matters, I guess being a hypocrite isn't so bad either and easy to just ignore... oh, and let me tell you there is bigotry out there, calling anybody, as is done here in these rooms, homophobes just if you do not agree to allow SSM... that is bigotry most certainly.

    I used to be tolerant, didn t want to know what people did in their bedrooms, etc...., but some just have to throw it in your face and most are not satisfied with just tolerance, now they want more... I am unwilling to give any more than tolerance... certainly do not intend to encourage what is by definition a deviant lifestyle... why would we do that, why would we confuse our kids so? That is just not right.
    I'm not convinced it is sin. I've linked many times why. My particular priest understands my argument, and doesn't dispute it. And frankly, heterosexuals throw their sexuality in people's faces all the time. I mean hold hands. Kissing.

    Two epode living one another, being tender, committed isn't deviant. You might pay more attention to heterosexuals and their deviant behavior.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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