View Poll Results: Do you favor bailing out Detroit?

Voters
88. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes.

    16 18.18%
  • No.

    67 76.14%
  • Don't know.

    5 5.68%
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Thread: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

  1. #71
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Um....bankruptcy...is the shedding of responsibility.
    True, but it's an acknowledgement of the responsibility you're shedding.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  2. #72
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    True, but it's an acknowledgement of the responsibility you're shedding.
    Who said the monies owed to vendors is not being "acknowledged"?

    The point is that you favor the vendors getting nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  3. #73
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    that is only evidence of a balance sheet. No more and no less since that is the criteria for the EM takeover.
    Do you acknowledge that the residents of Detroit elected their city government?

    Do you acknowledge that the city government in Detroit had authority and responsibility for establishing yearly budgets and generating the revenues to support those budgets and expenditures?

    Do you acknowledge that the city government in Detroit entered into collective agreements with their city employees over the past 50 years, signing off on all improvements in wages and benefits contained in those agreements?

    Do you acknowledge that if the city government runs a deficit in a particular year, it is their sworn oath responsibility to account for that deficit in the next year and to ensure it isn't replicated in the next year?

    Do you have any evidence at all of any extraordinary circumstances such as natural disasters or infrastructure catastrophes that hit the city so hard that they could not handle them in the budget year?

    Bottom line, the current city government of Detroit may not be specifically responsible for all of Detroit's problems but all of the city governments of Detroit over the past 50 years are collectively responsible and all those governments were freely elected and reelected by the residents of Detroit.

    So, yes, the people of Detroit are responsible for their mess.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  4. #74
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Who said the monies owed to vendors is not being "acknowledged"?

    The point is that you favor the vendors getting nothing.
    When did I say any such thing?
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  5. #75
    Sometimes wrong

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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I wonder if when the people of New Jersey, New York, Florida, Texas and other states need help, Michigan takes the F YOU attitude that seems to be the response to our state?
    Actually the recent case of the fertilizer plant explosion in West, TX is a good example. FEMA help was denied, rightly, as it was a man caused disaster. If all big blue cities are now free to promise things far in excess of what their local tax base can support, declare a "woops" and then get tossed a pile of federal cash to "make things right" that amounts to taxation without representation. Those outside of Detriot had no say in the terrible decisions made leading up to the collapse, so why should they have any responsibility for the results?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  6. #76
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    LOL It's only a fanatasy for people who refuse to accept responsibility. People who take responsibility take action and save themselves; those who don't end up watching flood waters rise, then drown waiting for rescue.

    Who lives in the world of fantasy? Those who act, or those who can act but prefer to beg for help? Or maybe those who make excuses for those who refuse to act?
    Single mothers working 2 & 3 jobs to keep a roof over their families heads and food on the table are great examples of personal responsibility.
    Women who want to responsibility for making their own health choices are great examples of personal responsibility.
    Here's an example of a woman begging for help:


    Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) and Rep. Reid Ribble (R-WI) were not happy with Sister Simone Campbell's request for government assistance in helping the poor
    What’s more, Ribble’s willingness to shirk governmental responsibility echoed the sentiment of other Republican members at the hearing who looked down on the poor. In his opening statement, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) claimed that in America, “If you work hard and play by the rules, you can get ahead.” Ryan’s comments, combined with Ribble’s, invoked an old conservative stereotype of the lazy, unemployed welfare recipient, living off of government funding instead of working for her family’s wellbeing. Under their logic, those who receive welfare—or faith-based social justice charities that ask for government assistance—are just not working hard enough.
    Campbell shot back, “Justice comes before charity… Everyone has a right to eat, and therefore there is a governmental responsibility to ensure everyone’s capacity to eat. Love and care makes a difference, but the issues are so big there isn’t sufficient charitable dollars there.”

    Indeed, by placing the responsibility of social welfare on the Catholic church, Ribble ignored the federal government’s long history of working with faith groups to help guarantee equal protection and economic mobility for all Americans. Catholic Charities, for example, is one of the largest charities in the country, and gets over half of its operating budget from federal funds. Yet even with this support, the combined efforts of Catholic Charities and various other faith-based groups don’t even come close to meeting the demand of America’s impoverished, including the four out of 5 U.S. adults who struggle with joblessness, near-poverty, or relying on welfare for at least parts of their lives.
    In reality, Ryan and Ribble’s image of the poor ignores the 68 percent of children

  7. #77
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post


    Do you have any evidence at all of any extraordinary circumstances such as natural disasters or infrastructure catastrophes that hit the city so hard that they could not handle them in the budget year?.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  8. #78
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I would be happy to see evidence that the voters of Detroit chose the wrong people and they are responsible for the problems.

    I concede readily that government of Detroit certainly played a role in all this. No doubt about it. These financial problems should have been dealt with a long time ago.

    But having conceded that it is irrelevant to two much larger problems which killed Detroit:

    1- loss of 2/3 of the City population and the jobs and tax base that went with it,
    2- extreme racial polarization which led to Detroit being a city of mostly poor black people far less educated and far older than most other surrounding communities with far better resources.

    If city government had some magic solution for those problems and they simply mismanaged its proper application, I am not aware of it. And I live right here in SE Michigan.
    It is not just the voters, but the voters hold responsibility as well, they did choose, and I am sorry if this offends, too bad it needs said, they chose Democrats who tend not to be fiscally sound in their thinking nor performance. I have not studied Detroit, but would suggest that there were, as many have mentioned here, giveaways, handouts, wrong messages being sent so that certain people would be elected to continue the minimal gravy train. Do you have vouchers there, where parents can choose the school they want and have the money that is allotted each student follow? Is there strict enforcement of laws to keep things clean and organized? Are the operations of the city well maintained with people of competence and not political appointees without knowledge manning those posts?

    Why did 2/3s of the people leave? Why did the jobs leave? As stated previously, unions did a wonderful job of pricing their members out of the global marketplace. If a corporation, whose main job is to make a profit so they can survive, is put at such a disadvantage by having to pay higher and ever higher wages, high benefits, high pensions and unions who do not work with mangagement oftentimes so as to put out a better if not the very best product, but rather in an adversarial position to the point where the corporation becomes inclined to seek a more congenial and prosperous venue elsewhere from which to conduct business... whose fault is that?

    What created the racial polarization? If you drive your tax base away due to racial friction leaving just the poor there, maybe they should rethink how strident their positions are, how far they are willing to push things and what the consequences of those decisions and what the benefits of other decisions might be. I am not accusing anybody or any side of anything...just saying if you drive people away, maybe you should have made the proper concessions prior, cause look what you are left with now?

    Every city looking at trouble in the USA should be rethinking right now. if they don't, and do not work to resolve the problems now, sorry...too bad soo sad...
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

  9. #79
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    When did I say any such thing?
    Um, if you are arguing for bankruptcy...you are.

    If you are arguing that the city should have foreseen for the massive decline in jobs/property values/increased unemployment that happened in the last 4 years ( a very real disaster) while still needing to maintain city services, then you ought to lend them your crystal ball.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  10. #80
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    It is not just the voters, but the voters hold responsibility as well, they did choose, and I am sorry if this offends, too bad it needs said, they chose Democrats who tend not to be fiscally sound in their thinking nor performance. I have not studied Detroit, but would suggest that there were, as many have mentioned here, giveaways, handouts, wrong messages being sent so that certain people would be elected to continue the minimal gravy train. Do you have vouchers there, where parents can choose the school they want and have the money that is allotted each student follow? Is there strict enforcement of laws to keep things clean and organized? Are the operations of the city well maintained with people of competence and not political appointees without knowledge manning those posts?

    Why did 2/3s of the people leave? Why did the jobs leave? As stated previously, unions did a wonderful job of pricing their members out of the global marketplace. If a corporation, whose main job is to make a profit so they can survive, is put at such a disadvantage by having to pay higher and ever higher wages, high benefits, high pensions and unions who do not work with mangagement oftentimes so as to put out a better if not the very best product, but rather in an adversarial position to the point where the corporation becomes inclined to seek a more congenial and prosperous venue elsewhere from which to conduct business... whose fault is that?

    What created the racial polarization? If you drive your tax base away due to racial friction leaving just the poor there, maybe they should rethink how strident their positions are, how far they are willing to push things and what the consequences of those decisions and what the benefits of other decisions might be. I am not accusing anybody or any side of anything...just saying if you drive people away, maybe you should have made the proper concessions prior, cause look what you are left with now?

    Every city looking at trouble in the USA should be rethinking right now. if they don't, and do not work to resolve the problems now, sorry...too bad soo sad...

    North Carolina Governor Pat McCrory campaigned on the claim he would not support new laws restricting abortion, but guess what? He signed a new set of abortion restrictions attached to a motorcycle safety bill.
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