View Poll Results: Do you favor bailing out Detroit?

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  • Yes.

    16 18.18%
  • No.

    67 76.14%
  • Don't know.

    5 5.68%
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Thread: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

  1. #31
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by lolabird View Post
    People often vote for elected officials believing they are the best candidate only to find out that they are really demagogues.
    It's always easy to tear people down, kick them to the curb, and refuse them any help, but that's not a solution. That's exacerbating the problem, which most likely will spread to other cities.
    Instead of assigning the Sisyphean task of saving Detroit to the citizens, why not search and procure different solutions.
    It's not only Detroit crying gimme gimme gimme. In case you aren't aware, Sen. Rand Paul also cries gimme gimme gimme. For every dollar Kentucky sends to Washington, they get $1.52 back.
    Because I believe that an involved populace becomes a civic minded one. As long as people can escape the results of their errors they have no motivation for change. Get them involved in the problem, tell them it's on their shoulders and suddenly they are willing to see the value of compromises and solutions.

    Some people will run, some people will hide, but some will do what needs doing and be all the better for it. NO BAILOUTS!! Fix it yourself, not just in Detroit...EVERYWHERE!
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  2. #32
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And how does that program help Detroit and its people?

    Could you wax eloquently for a few minutes about personal responsibility and accepting the consequences of your choices for living in a flood plain?

    Could you discuss the elements of accepting personal responsibility of living along the coast where destructive and deadly seasonal storms are merely par for the course?

    Could you pontificate about the duty to accept responsibility of living in a part of the nation where a fault exists in the earth and earthquakes are inevitable?

    Could you educate us about the duty to accept personal responsibility of living in a part of the country with precious little water which has to be expensively taken from other areas of the nation just so others can live in that climate?

    Could you inform us about the duty to accept personal responsibility for living in a tornado alley which you know darn well is subject to a high probability of damage on a somewhat regular basis?

    Please do illuminate the dark recesses of our minds on all these things connected with personal responsibility.
    I don't live in a flood plain, but if I chose to I would buy flood insurance, or accept the risk.

    I don't live on the coast, but if Idid, I would be sure my insurance would cover my losses.

    I don't live on a fault, but if I did I would get earthquake insurance, or plan to accept the possible losses.

    I would not choose to live where there was inadequate water for my needs, but if I did I would not ask people in wet area to mail me a couple of gallons each day.

    I did live in tornado alley for ba while. I had insurance.

    It is about personal decisions and the acceptance of the risk/rewards of those decisions.

    Seriously, if you want to help the people of Detroit, mail them a check each month. Just make sure the signature is yours, not mine or my grand kids.

  3. #33
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Actually a natural disaster is no different than any other disaster in that it hurts Americans and requires aid to them. You say "through no fault of their own". Really? Who forced or imprisoned those people to live along the Eastern seaboard or the Gulf Coast? Who sentenced people to live in a hurricane prone area or a tornado alley? Who imprisoned the people along river flood plains? Who doomed innocent people to live on earthquake fault lines?

    And what exactly are you punishing people in Detroit for that you want them to accept "the consequences of their actions"? Are they to be punished because they performed a job for thirty or forty years and fulfilled their end of that contract and now want the other party to uphold their end? That is something you condemn as a bad action?
    Every place in the world is subject to natural disaster through no fault of the people living there. An asteroid can hit the earth anywhere, you are gonna blame people for living on the Earth for that are you? It is a false equivalent, and if you don't know it, you should. I live in an inland area of the south that had not been hit by a hurricane in 60 plus years. Then, in just one year, we got hit 3 times. So nobody should live in the entire South, is that it? Nobody should live in Kansas or Texas, nobody should live in NY or New Jersey, California, etc... nowhere, right?

    Listen, if you keep electing people who have no idea what they are doing, whose fault it that?

    I don't follow Detroit all that much but even without following it we all know its one of the most corrupt, crime ridden and mismanaged cities, obviously, in the entire USA... this coming from a time when, not too long ago in the 1950s, it was the wealthiest city in the US on a per capita basis. Juxtapose that with the current city of Detroit. If you live in a place that squanders its wealth and opportunity, if you elect people who squander, then you live where you squandered and you live in the squander [ or vote with your feet and move ...just don't bring your mismanagement to where I live ] until you can make it better.

    You mismanage your life, your inheritance, your body and then you want us, neighbors close and distant, to make it all better for you? No. Don't make those mistakes in the first place. Takes, often, a bit of self denial, self discipline, a little work and effort. You folks keep on wanting to penalize us, those who do the right things, so as to let those who don't off the hook. If you have some guilty conscience for some reason, establish a fund where you can contribute to those who have created their own misery. I say, send a message that we won't help those who self inflict and so we all know, from the beginning, that it will be all up to those making the mistakes to make it better... and then, who knows, maybe people will start making better decisions on how to live their life. The side benefit to all that is that they will live a better and more fulfilling life.

    Do you want to argue unions and pensions? How the unions achieved many victories in wages, benefits and pensions for their members, to the tune of these being Pyrrhic Victories, where the legacy costs of all these are making the companies they worked for less and less competitive, driving some out of business as these costs are unsustainable? Those taking these inordinately high wages, benefits and pensions that were nice at the time, but unsustainable. It was kind of a Faustian bargain...eh?

    And what do you mean I am punishing them? I had nothing to do with them or their decisions. I am just one that says you have to sleep in the bed you made for yourself. My house is messy right now... why don't you offer to come over and clean it up for me...oh, and next week too, and the week after, and...
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

  4. #34
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Having been to Detroit many times, I've always said, let Windsor annex her...
    We don't want it.

  5. #35
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    We don't want it.
    Ingrate. We'll throw in Scranton too. And Newark.

  6. #36
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by lolabird View Post
    The city government, obviously comprised of greed-suckers, created the devastation, but your solution is to thrust the burden upon he innocent people to pull themselves out.
    Who elected the greed suckers, who kept electing the creators of devastation? Was certainly not me, but you want me to pay for it, huh? The people of Detroit are not wholly innocent there, lets try to be a bit rational... at minimum they are accessories to their own demise.
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

  7. #37
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Because I believe that an involved populace becomes a civic minded one. As long as people can escape the results of their errors they have no motivation for change. Get them involved in the problem, tell them it's on their shoulders and suddenly they are willing to see the value of compromises and solutions.

    Some people will run, some people will hide, but some will do what needs doing and be all the better for it. NO BAILOUTS!! Fix it yourself, not just in Detroit...EVERYWHERE!
    So the solution is to place the burden on the shoulders of single mothers, who are working 2 and 3 jobs just to keep food on the table, and the children who are hungry.
    Let me be the fist the say, you would make a very unfit public servant.

  8. #38
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    AArrggh! How hard is it to understand? NO BAILOUTS! People need to stop thinking that government has an unlimited fund of money (regardless of fiat cash) and can just pour it onto any fire we cry about. The money comes from US, the citizens. The government uses this idea to promote deficit spending...and here we are trillions in debt.

    If a city get's into financial troubles it is up to the local citizenry to FIX it. That means sitting down together and facing FACTS!!! Then coming up with a proper plan that deals with REALITY!

    Geeez, does everyone think they deserve free and unlimited access to tax dollars?
    It's that consequence of people feeling the gov't has free and unlimited access to our money... Of course that's an overstatement, but it won't change how people feel about it.

    If you want to break the long line of precedence that each side uses as justifications and make an example of a group that already gets more representation, more tax breaks, more benefits than work-a-day citizens... start making consistent examples of finance, energy and insurance... and gov't... then we can talk about what the people must suffer through.

    The cycle needs to be broken, no question. Bailouts need to be stopped, period. It's just sad that with all the possibilities to end that string of precedences prior to Detroit... all were missed opportunities.

  9. #39
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    Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Can we stop comparing Detroit's financial woes to natural disasters!?

    Detroit is a man made disaster!

  10. #40
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by lolabird View Post
    So the solution is to place the burden on the shoulders of single mothers, who are working 2 and 3 jobs just to keep food on the table, and the children who are hungry.
    Let me be the fist the say, you would make a very unfit public servant.
    Don't play that "appeal to emotion" crap in a debate on issues. You trying to tell me that most, if not all citizens of Detroit are "single mothers working 2 and 3 jobs to keep food on the table for hungry children?" Most of over 700,000 people? HARDLY!

    There would be no "unfit public servants" if people who resided in a city were a little more civic minded. Now, after refusing to recognize a problem despite it being brought to their attention again and again, these fair citizens of Detroit deserve to be bailed out? HARDLY!

    These same citizens who refuse to allow cost-cutting reductions in city services, who demand MORE services that cannot be paid for? Who know that industry refuses to pay $30 an hour for labor, but refuses to see that Industrial flight resulted? They deserve to be bailed out? HARDLY!

    Detroit still has the resources and the tax base to solve it's own problems. Tighten the belt, sell off property, reorganize, and find solutions with the help of it's own citizens. NO one there deserves to be BAILED OUT! Whining notwithstanding.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 08-03-13 at 01:24 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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