View Poll Results: Do you favor bailing out Detroit?

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Thread: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

  1. #11
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    Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    No, this would set a bad precedent for other troubled cities. Orange County, CA, went bankrupt in the 90s without any gov bailout. I realize that people take sympathy to the pensioners, but that's the risk/reward associated with such plans. The Pension Benefits Guarantee Corporation already exists and will no doubt take over the plans, although it may not support the same payments pensioners are currently getting. I get that, it sucks; but at least something is better than nothing.

    Detroit's problems cannot be solved with money....
    Last edited by greyhat; 08-03-13 at 09:07 AM.

  2. #12
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    No, this would set a bad precedent for other troubled cities. Orange County, CA, went bankrupt in the 90s without any gov bailout. I realize that people take sympathy to the pensioners, but that's the risk/reward associated with such plans. The Pension Benefits Guarantee Corporation already exists and will no doubt take over the plans, although it may not support the same payments pensioners are currently getting. I get that, it sucks; but at least something is better than nothing.

    Detroit's problems cannot be solved with money....
    With respect to the pensioners --was Detroit's mismanagement their fault?

    If Goldman Sachs can get 100 cents on the dollar and it was their fault, I think we can find away to restructure debt and allow those who did their part to get what is owed.

  3. #13
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    Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    With respect to the pensioners --was Detroit's mismanagement their fault?

    If Goldman Sachs can get 100 cents on the dollar and it was their fault, I think we can find away to restructure debt and allow those who did their part to get what is owed.
    Perhaps not, but it's part of life; unfortunately that's how finance works.

    The pensioners will receive thru the PGBC a portion of their income up to about $60k a year for those 65+ and reduced amounts for younger ones. That is already law since 1974 (ERISA) and updated in 2006 (PPA). It could be worst: they could get zero. So we've taken care of the pensioners already.
    We don't need to bailout Detroit to help them.

    What does GS have to do with anything?
    Last edited by greyhat; 08-03-13 at 09:27 AM.

  4. #14
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I think those who's pensions are in jeopardy should somehow be taken care of.
    Wouldn't they be covered by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation?

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Advisor greyhat's Avatar
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    Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Wouldn't they be covered by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation?
    Yes they are

  6. #16
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    I was born in Detroit...

    Thank god my parents had the good sense to move out while it was still in its heyday. That being said, while one can see your sarcasm as it drips in globs down on your tie, I do not believe in bailing anybody, or any entity, out when they self inflict by not making the hard decisions you need to be making along the way in order to arrive at that better ending. Detroit is just a canary in the cave regarding the unsustainable. We can also look across the pond at Europe. If we continue making bad decisions, keep spending money we do not have on things government has no business... well, I do not think there will be anybody bailing us out when we misstep on that precipice... and we will have deserved it knowing what we do now... with such vivid examples right before our very eyes.
    Good morning, gaughingcatenate.

    : Excellent post. If we do one bailout, the line that will then form will resemble shoppers on Black Friday at WalMart. The "Emergency Manager in Detroit" idea is probably the best first step to take, since it should take emotions out of the picture, which is sorely needed where money is concerned, IMO.

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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    The nature of America is that we help each other in time of need. Some areas of the nation are prone to certain natural disasters and the rest of the nation is constantly coming to their aid. And that is what is expected as Americans.
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good morning, gaughingcatenate.

    : Excellent post. If we do one bailout, the line that will then form will resemble shoppers on Black Friday at WalMart. The "Emergency Manager in Detroit" idea is probably the best first step to take, since it should take emotions out of the picture, which is sorely needed where money is concerned, IMO.
    Good morning polgara,

    Thanks, and totally agree with your analogy to Walmart. There is no doubt a need for an Emergency Manager, but who talented enough would actually want to be there nowadays? I expect there are some great deals on real estate, it was once one of the crown jewels when our auto industry was on top. So, it has all the basics to be great again, just needs good solid management [ i.e, less liberal "progress" and more republican and conservative values, organization, incentives and hard work ].

    I would like to see this happening more of the time.... Panhandler Pranks Entire Subway Car (VIDEO)
    "...But resist we much, we must and we will much, about that be committed..." --- the right Reverend Alfred Charles "Al" Shaprton, Jr.

  9. #19
    Advisor greyhat's Avatar
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    Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The nature of America is that we help each other in time of need. Some areas of the nation are prone to certain natural disasters and the rest of the nation is constantly coming to their aid. And that is what is expected as Americans.
    Done that: it's called the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation. The nature of America is personal responsibility and that includes cities.

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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by greyhat View Post
    Done that: it's called the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation. The nature of America is personal responsibility and that includes cities.
    And how does that program help Detroit and its people?

    Could you wax eloquently for a few minutes about personal responsibility and accepting the consequences of your choices for living in a flood plain?

    Could you discuss the elements of accepting personal responsibility of living along the coast where destructive and deadly seasonal storms are merely par for the course?

    Could you pontificate about the duty to accept responsibility of living in a part of the nation where a fault exists in the earth and earthquakes are inevitable?

    Could you educate us about the duty to accept personal responsibility of living in a part of the country with precious little water which has to be expensively taken from other areas of the nation just so others can live in that climate?

    Could you inform us about the duty to accept personal responsibility for living in a tornado alley which you know darn well is subject to a high probability of damage on a somewhat regular basis?

    Please do illuminate the dark recesses of our minds on all these things connected with personal responsibility.
    Last edited by haymarket; 08-03-13 at 11:31 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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