View Poll Results: Do you favor bailing out Detroit?

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  • Yes.

    16 18.18%
  • No.

    67 76.14%
  • Don't know.

    5 5.68%
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Thread: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

  1. #121
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    Looks like a lot of green in the non-union areas, and a heck of a lot of deep red in the union controlled areas. DC Metro being an exception...

    Thanks for the post. Local government, state and municipal, are the only levels of government that can increase industry growth. However the Federal government has the ability to kill it with one-size-fits-all laws, regulations and agencies, such as the NLRB.
    No doubt there are lots of manufacturing losses in "union" areas, the problem is that the manufacturing losses are not just union jobs, they are ALL manufacturing.

    And here is the kicker, those non union areas (South of the Mason-Dixon) that had increased manufacturing jobs.....had very spotty increases in wages/income:

    Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?-rust-belt-wages-jpg

    So they got some of those manufacturing jobs, but their wages did not increase from what they were doing before.

    Hooray for the foreign manufacturers, they get discounted labor, huge tax cuts and subsidies.....while the US workers (and govts)...meh, not much.

    Again, no national industrial policy, you let the corporations set the policy, you end up with rust belts, less manufacturing, greater market share going to foreign corporations and lower wages for critical, strategic industrial workers.
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  2. #122
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    ....If a city runs upon hard times due to no fault of their own (natural disaster, etc.) then yes. But when a city becomes the quintessential display of all that is wrong with unions and progressive liberalism, then Hell No. The same would go for a city that fell upon hard times due to overt hyper-conservative actions that decimate the labor force and kill off industry as well...
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    No doubt there are lots of manufacturing losses in "union" areas, the problem is that the manufacturing losses are not just union jobs, they are ALL manufacturing.

    And here is the kicker, those non union areas (South of the Mason-Dixon) that had increased manufacturing jobs.....had very spotty increases in wages/income:

    Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?-rust-belt-wages-jpg

    So they got some of those manufacturing jobs, but their wages did not increase from what they were doing before.

    Hooray for the foreign manufacturers, they get discounted labor, huge tax cuts and subsidies.....while the US workers (and govts)...meh, not much.

    Again, no national industrial policy, you let the corporations set the policy, you end up with rust belts, less manufacturing, greater market share going to foreign corporations and lower wages for critical, strategic industrial workers.
    Unions...Industry...Outsourcing...time for a musical interlude:

    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 08-03-13 at 08:48 PM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  3. #123
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    No doubt there are lots of manufacturing losses in "union" areas, the problem is that the manufacturing losses are not just union jobs, they are ALL manufacturing.

    And here is the kicker, those non union areas (South of the Mason-Dixon) that had increased manufacturing jobs.....had very spotty increases in wages/income:

    Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?-rust-belt-wages-jpg

    So they got some of those manufacturing jobs, but their wages did not increase from what they were doing before.

    Hooray for the foreign manufacturers, they get discounted labor, huge tax cuts and subsidies.....while the US workers (and govts)...meh, not much.

    Again, no national industrial policy, you let the corporations set the policy, you end up with rust belts, less manufacturing, greater market share going to foreign corporations and lower wages for critical, strategic industrial workers.
    If the US consumer wanted higher priced "union made in the USA" goods then they would surely buy them.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #124
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If the US consumer wanted higher priced "union made in the USA" goods then they would surely buy them.
    Which vehicles are the biggest sellers in the US?

    Ford trucks, followed by Chevy trucks.


    But of course you miss the point, when you have a lack of industrial policy allowing foreign manufacturers to carve out your market, you will end up cutting the throat of your industries.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    What would Obama say ?

    "If I had a city, it would look like Detroit."

  6. #126
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    If the US consumer wanted higher priced "union made in the USA" goods then they would surely buy them.
    Good evening, ttwtt.

    The problem is since we decided to try having a service-based economy instead of a manufacturing-based economy, people no longer have the jobs that pay well enough to buy enough of those "union-made in the USA" goods. Look at the number of years the car companies, as an example, have been forced to offer consumers to pay off a car loan. And the loan agreements keep giving longer and longer terms. I saw one recently for 72 months! One in every six Americans are on some sort of government assistance today, and the number is growing. Most people like to have nice things--they just can't afford them today on part-time jobs. Sad catch-22! :

  7. #127
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    I wish there was another option honestly.
    I think there are many possible options that would require joint cooperation from government, big business, and the people of Detroit, but it would be a huge gamble that nobody wants to make. Businesses won't do it because any projection made will point to failure, and a loss of millions, perhaps billions of dollars. The government won't do it because hands are tied, money is tight, and failure would make it really difficult to ensure victory at the polls. The people of Detroit won't do it because people are ignorant, fear change, and don't care about anything that doesn't involve something being in it for them, especially if it involves them changing their ways.
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  8. #128
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    No doubt there are lots of manufacturing losses in "union" areas, the problem is that the manufacturing losses are not just union jobs, they are ALL manufacturing.

    And here is the kicker, those non union areas (South of the Mason-Dixon) that had increased manufacturing jobs.....had very spotty increases in wages/income:

    Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?-rust-belt-wages-jpg

    So they got some of those manufacturing jobs, but their wages did not increase from what they were doing before.

    Hooray for the foreign manufacturers, they get discounted labor, huge tax cuts and subsidies.....while the US workers (and govts)...meh, not much.

    Again, no national industrial policy, you let the corporations set the policy, you end up with rust belts, less manufacturing, greater market share going to foreign corporations and lower wages for critical, strategic industrial workers.
    Let's see... there's a down turn in the economy, and wages drop for new jobs. Never would have thought that would happen? And of course, the US industries that have to compete with the foreign low wage jobs that you brought up, well, make it more difficult to raise wages here. That of course never enters into the conversation, just that our wages are too low.

    You see, if we only have to compete with our own products, then we can set our costs (wages for instance) as high as we want. The problem is that we have to compete on a global scale, with those same low wage worker produced products from around the world. Sticky thing, facts...

    Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. I'm just trying to voice the true economic facts of a global market (Smoot-Hawley didn't work then, and a similar act will not work now).

    National policies (the one-size-fits-all) is not, will not, and never has been the answer to the problem. Local government understands the local market for labor and supplies and can make the proper adjustments for taxes and wages.

    Want to see what a laissez faire attitude toward the global market and a damned the torpedoes advocacy of high labor costs can do to an economy? Just look at Detroit today.

  9. #129
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good evening, ttwtt.

    The problem is since we decided to try having a service-based economy instead of a manufacturing-based economy, people no longer have the jobs that pay well enough to buy enough of those "union-made in the USA" goods. Look at the number of years the car companies, as an example, have been forced to offer consumers to pay off a car loan. And the loan agreements keep giving longer and longer terms. I saw one recently for 72 months! One in every six Americans are on some sort of government assistance today, and the number is growing. Most people like to have nice things--they just can't afford them today on part-time jobs. Sad catch-22! :
    I don't think that "we decided to try having a service-based economy instead" is a fair or accurate statement. We developed a service-based economy because there were enough high-paying manufacturing job to support it as something of an indulgence. Then, due to globalization and the world getting figuratively smaller, those high-paying manufacturing jobs moved overseas because it was more economically feasible for the corporations to turn them into low-paying manufacturing jobs. The result being that we are left with a more service-based economy and not nearly the discretionary money to fully support it.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good evening, ttwtt.

    The problem is since we decided to try having a service-based economy instead of a manufacturing-based economy, people no longer have the jobs that pay well enough to buy enough of those "union-made in the USA" goods. Look at the number of years the car companies, as an example, have been forced to offer consumers to pay off a car loan. And the loan agreements keep giving longer and longer terms. I saw one recently for 72 months! One in every six Americans are on some sort of government assistance today, and the number is growing. Most people like to have nice things--they just can't afford them today on part-time jobs. Sad catch-22! :
    Yet you cannot expect to live like a middle class worker with a McJob. In a global market you must accept a global lifestyle. The silly idea now seems to be to turn all "essential" goods and services into entitlements provided by the huge nanny state via income redistribution schemes. Even the village idiot will magically become a middle class regular Joe in the utopian land of unicorns; we will now strive for mediocrity and accept anything short of that as still meriting a "fair share" of the American dream. Instead of making more pies we will now simply share less pies more equally to achieve "social justice".
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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