View Poll Results: Do you favor bailing out Detroit?

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  • Yes.

    16 18.18%
  • No.

    67 76.14%
  • Don't know.

    5 5.68%
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Thread: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

  1. #111
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I think those who's pensions are in jeopardy should somehow be taken care of. I don't think Detroit as a city is worth saving. I can't think of any industry where it makes sense to make Detroit its global headquarters where it wouldn't make more sense to have it somewhere else. The auto industry would be more efficiently run out of a city with an international seaport in my opinion.

    It would have been best to do this in advance, but create a national pool of all city workers pensions then if one city has issues, the retirees are safe. It might be good to go ahead and extend the national pooling to other benefits too like health insurance group, etc.
    Are you kidding me? These "servants" of the people should not get one dime more than the SS/Medicare system that they "opted" out of gives to anyone else with the same earnings history. It is simply insane to "honor" these very special agreements that are unsustainable by the tax base/electorate which allowed these moronic unfunded promises to be made in the first place. Converting selected local gov't employees to some federally protected class of super citizen is not legal, and doubtfully even constitutional.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #112
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Well, again our resident soothseer, where was your crystal ball 4 years ago and why didn't you let everone know that the spike in unemployment was coming along with the dramatic declines in residents and property values?





    forecasters are always 100%.....years after an event.
    What I can forecast is that you'll never understand what I'm saying because you seem incapable of accepting that when governments go bankrupt it is the government and the people who elect and keep electing them that are at fault, period. You want to wallow in the results of that mismanagement as if God woke up one day and decide to smite the good city of Detroit. I think there are more earthly, human causes.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  3. #113
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I won't argue the points you've made - you identify the problems, but you don't identify the causes of those problems. I would argue that a well run city with a strong municipal government, responsible and dedicated to the people and the health of their city and not solely to themselves, does not have the exodus of residents and business for no reason - that's just not logical. People and businesses left for two main reasons - because taxes were too high and growing higher and crime was running rampant without any attempts to seriously curtail it.

    These people didn't all flee the city for other big cities or other states - in many cases, they moved out of the municipal jurisdiction of the city of Detroit proper to surrounding metropolitan areas with less crime and lower taxes. Many of these, interestingly, are city employees like police officers, firefighters, etc. So they make their living from the city and pay their taxes somewhere else.

    That's a recipe for disaster if you don't stop it and the city government seems to have just let the city rot.
    Good evening, CJ.

    In our area, there is reciprocity between the two cities. When we file City income tax, the W2 we get from our employer is sent with the City filing, and the two localities share the tax money. I thought that was the norm, but I don't know. :

  4. #114
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good evening, CJ.

    In our area, there is reciprocity between the two cities. When we file City income tax, the W2 we get from our employer is sent with the City filing, and the two localities share the tax money. I thought that was the norm, but I don't know. :
    Good evening to you too Lady P.

    In some large cities, this is true - for example, here in Toronto we once had the main city of Toronto plus several burroughs and smaller cities that had their own governments plus an umbrella Metropolitan Toronto government - taxes were pooled at the metropolitan level for large, area wide infrastructure, transit, that kind of thing and the individual entities had their own tax base for local needs, like schools, local roads, etc. Almost 20 years ago, these were all amalgamated into one city government so we only have one tax base and one taxing body.

    I don't know what the situation is in Detroit and the surrounding area, but I do believe that many surrounding suburbs of Detroit are doing quite well.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  5. #115
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I won't argue the points you've made - you identify the problems, but you don't identify the causes of those problems. I would argue that a well run city with a strong municipal government, responsible and dedicated to the people and the health of their city and not solely to themselves, does not have the exodus of residents and business for no reason - that's just not logical. People and businesses left for two main reasons - because taxes were too high and growing higher and crime was running rampant without any attempts to seriously curtail it.

    These people didn't all flee the city for other big cities or other states - in many cases, they moved out of the municipal jurisdiction of the city of Detroit proper to surrounding metropolitan areas with less crime and lower taxes. Many of these, interestingly, are city employees like police officers, firefighters, etc. So they make their living from the city and pay their taxes somewhere else.

    That's a recipe for disaster if you don't stop it and the city government seems to have just let the city rot.
    Yes, White flight was a result of taxes.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  6. #116
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    What I can forecast is that you'll never understand what I'm saying because you seem incapable of accepting that when governments go bankrupt it is the government and the people who elect and keep electing them that are at fault, period. You want to wallow in the results of that mismanagement as if God woke up one day and decide to smite the good city of Detroit. I think there are more earthly, human causes.
    Again, how the frig does a Mayor(s) have an effect on whether the the biggest corporations in the world decide to reduce manufacturing in and around his city?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  7. #117
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Again, how the frig does a Mayor(s) have an effect on whether the the biggest corporations in the world decide to reduce manufacturing in and around his city?
    Not just mayors, the whole city government, and they do it by ensuring that the tax and regulatory burdens are no worse and significantly better than in other similar jurisdictions. They ensure that infrastructure is maintained and enhanced. I could go on and on - point being, you make your city a place where businesses want to invest and remain.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  8. #118
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Not just mayors, the whole city government, and they do it by ensuring that the tax and regulatory burdens are no worse and significantly better than in other similar jurisdictions. They ensure that infrastructure is maintained and enhanced. I could go on and on - point being, you make your city a place where businesses want to invest and remain.
    I know....look at all those lousy local govts....


    Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?-rust-belt-job-loss-jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  9. #119
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    There should have been a fourth option in the poll... Hell No...

    If a city runs upon hard times due to no fault of their own (natural disaster, etc.) then yes. But when a city becomes the quintessential display of all that is wrong with unions and progressive liberalism, then Hell No. The same would go for a city that fell upon hard times due to overt hyper-conservative actions that decimate the labor force and kill off industry as well.

    There has to be a balance, and in many major cities in the US, the great Progressive experiment, is failing. Don't ask me to help pay the bill. I don't live there and I didn't have a voice in what got them to where they are. Now, if "God" decides to smite them, or "Mother Nature" wants to raze them, or if a terrorist chooses to blow some of them up.... then I'm right there... giving my money willingly.

  10. #120
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    Re: Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I know....look at all those lousy local govts....


    Poll: Do You Favor Bailing Out Detroit?-rust-belt-job-loss-jpg
    Looks like a lot of green in the non-union areas, and a heck of a lot of deep red in the union controlled areas. DC Metro being an exception...

    Thanks for the post. Local government, state and municipal, are the only levels of government that can increase industry growth. However the Federal government has the ability to kill it with one-size-fits-all laws, regulations and agencies, such as the NLRB.

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