View Poll Results: What is your stance on School Uniforms?

Voters
132. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes and the school should offer them at no extra cost.

    30 22.73%
  • Yes and the parents should pay for them.

    46 34.85%
  • They should be optional for students who want them

    2 1.52%
  • There should be school uniforms for specific activities only

    4 3.03%
  • We should leave it to the parents to decide if the school should have uniforms

    12 9.09%
  • We should leave it at municipal/state level

    10 7.58%
  • We shouldn't have school uniforms at all

    28 21.21%
  • I like the current way things are.

    8 6.06%
  • I hate uniforms

    11 8.33%
  • I'm a potato.

    16 12.12%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Do you support school uniforms?

  1. #271
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    Re: Do you support school uniforms?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Those "distractions" should be individually addressed and not collectively force everyone to wear a uniform to eliminate the problem. Why not target these individuals for control measures instead of everyone? Why not target these individuals for expulsion instead of treating the entire student body as if they were a threat of some sort? And or enforcement of a reasonable dress code.
    We are targeting the PROBLEM. Targeting "individuals" in this case is a waste of time and effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    It isn't the clothes that are causing the bad behavior and poor performance of students. It goes much deeper than that. But hey maybe that is why some folks don't want to dwell there and instead opt for a Band-Aid solution like uniforms.

    I think freedom-minded people tend to be against uniforms because it diminishes freedom of expression. And find it rather surprising that there are so many who have commented here see it perfectly alright to force their children to dress up like pro-golfers and somehow that is going to make it all better.
    Children in primary schools do not need to "express themselves" via fashion sense. They are free to express themselves by using their minds in class, writing, doing projects, participating. They can express themselves in sports, music, performing arts, arts, shop, student government, student newspaper, creative writing, clubs and organizations. They have all sorts of methods to express themselves that do not need the latest clothing fads. After school, they can dress however they want because they will only be hanging out with who they want.

    All the positives of school uniforms have already been cited. All you have in response is "freedom of expression" in "clothing and fashion?" Geeez!
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  2. #272
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    Re: Do you support school uniforms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    We are targeting the PROBLEM. Targeting "individuals" in this case is a waste of time and effort.
    Wow, so targeting the people that actually are the problem is a waste of time and effort? Seriously? It's not a waste of time and effort if you keep in mind that the number one goal is to maintain as much freedom as possible for all involved. Since the vast majority are doing nothing wrong there is no reason to act on them.

  3. #273
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    Re: Do you support school uniforms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Wow, so targeting the people that actually are the problem is a waste of time and effort? Seriously? It's not a waste of time and effort if you keep in mind that the number one goal is to maintain as much freedom as possible for all involved. Since the vast majority are doing nothing wrong there is no reason to act on them.
    Students have plenty of freedom. The loss of a privilege to wear whatever they want in school is no "loss of freedom" when dealing with a protected class.

    As for "problem students?" The system will still deal with drugs, fighting, and whatever other counseling issues arise. Clothing issues (Uniforms already shown to have major positives and only ONE half-assed negative) need not be one of them.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  4. #274
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    Re: Do you support school uniforms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    We are targeting the PROBLEM. Targeting "individuals" in this case is a waste of time and effort.



    Children in primary schools do not need to "express themselves" via fashion sense. They are free to express themselves by using their minds in class, writing, doing projects, participating. They can express themselves in sports, music, performing arts, arts, shop, student government, student newspaper, creative writing, clubs and organizations. They have all sorts of methods to express themselves that do not need the latest clothing fads. After school, they can dress however they want because they will only be hanging out with who they want.

    All the positives of school uniforms have already been cited. All you have in response is "freedom of expression" in "clothing and fashion?" Geeez!
    The use of Uniforms isn't targeting the problem, its nothing more than a one size fits all mentality.
    Don't try to make this all about fashion because that is a fallacy. Parents that have to pay for uniforms for school use then another set of clothing to wear when their children regain their freedoms to express themselves after school is a financial burden for many. The good news is people have the right to overturn such decisions within their school districts. So there is always hope.

  5. #275
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    Re: Do you support school uniforms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Students have plenty of freedom. The loss of a privilege to wear whatever they want in school is no "loss of freedom" when dealing with a protected class.
    A protecting class? Children still deserve freedom and respect. Just because you can control children without limit does not mean you should.

    As for "problem students?" The system will still deal with drugs, fighting, and whatever other counseling issues arise. Clothing issues (Uniforms already shown to have major positives and only ONE half-assed negative) need not be one of them.
    The one so called half-ass negative is pretty damn important. Totally control is no solution at all.
    Last edited by Henrin; 08-16-13 at 04:49 PM.

  6. #276
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    Re: Do you support school uniforms?

    I don't favor uniforms, but I would favor a dress code.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  7. #277
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    Re: Do you support school uniforms?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    The use of Uniforms isn't targeting the problem, its nothing more than a one size fits all mentality.
    Don't try to make this all about fashion because that is a fallacy. Parents that have to pay for uniforms for school use then another set of clothing to wear when their children regain their freedoms to express themselves after school is a financial burden for many. The good news is people have the right to overturn such decisions within their school districts. So there is always hope.
    Are you serious? You have two set of "uniforms" for school...and you still need to buy the kids anything they want to wear for later? If you are a parent who can afford to spoil their children's fashion sense, more power to you. Splurge on them for afterschool mall-wear all you want. Let them express themselves then. School? Not so much.

    Their one and only job in school is to learn; not try to impress their peers with the latest fad to wear.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  8. #278
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    Re: Do you support school uniforms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    A protecting class? Children still deserve freedom and respect. Just because you can control children without limit does not mean you should.
    ProtectED class, not "protecting" class. We adults do the protecting, they (the children) are protected. Again, they have multiple avenues of expression while in school without resort to "fashion issues." It this very attitude of coddling that is making our society a "major fail" today. Kids are so concerned with everything EXCEPT a good education, they graduate with overconfidence and little or no knowledge to support their goals. Too much "freedom of expression" and not enough "nose to the grindstone" is why our kids test so "dumb" these days compared to most other industrialized nations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The one so called half-ass negative is pretty damn important. Totally control is no solution at all.
    That's your best shot? An emotional appeal with no foundation in reality?
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  9. #279
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    Re: Do you support school uniforms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    ProtectED class, not "protecting" class. We adults do the protecting, they (the children) are protected. Again, they have multiple avenues of expression while in school without resort to "fashion issues." It this very attitude of coddling that is making our society a "major fail" today. Kids are so concerned with everything EXCEPT a good education, they graduate with overconfidence and little or no knowledge to support their goals. Too much "freedom of expression" and not enough "nose to the grindstone" is why our kids test so "dumb" these days compared to most other industrialized nations.
    Overbearing parents and schools are just as bad as any one else that is overbearing on those that they govern. I don't happen to find oppression is a desirable way to obtain your goals. You can whip a kid everyday until they stop acting up or you can actually be a parent and stop abusing your authority. You can have laws on everything under the sun that might do harm and I'm sure you will have some sort of positive return for your efforts. Absolute rule is without question a very effective way to reach your goals no matter what they are and abuse of those you govern will no doubt come about if you practice it. There is no reason to doubt that many times loss of freedom could be argued is a positive thing and in many of those cases the argument will lean heavily towards the argument that it improved the behavior of those governed. Don't be surprised that I don't consider it a good one.

  10. #280
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    Re: Do you support school uniforms?

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Those "distractions" should be individually addressed
    Yes, because we certainly don't have enough to do yet. It's not like we're doing anything throughout the day.

    And or enforcement of a reasonable dress code.
    That's what we're doing. We're putting in place reasonable measures to promote a better atmosphere for learning.

    It isn't the clothes that are causing the bad behavior and poor performance of students. It goes much deeper than that. But hey maybe that is why some folks don't want to dwell there and instead opt for a Band-Aid solution like uniforms.
    Ahh, so now teachers and administrators should also be psychologists. Got it.

    I think freedom-minded people
    Understand there is a legitimate reason for a stricter dress code. It's only the people blinded to ridiculous ideological positions despite having very limited experience in the area being discussed who think they know better.

    tend to be against uniforms because it diminishes freedom of expression.
    Being "freedom-minded" means not being a slave to your preconceptions. You have been responded to in this thread by many teachers who have explained to you the benefits and yet you still argue the same ridiculous talking points you were using at the beginning. That's not being "freedom-minded", that's being a slave to preconceptions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Nope. I just think that if bullying is the issue you address bullying.
    That's what we're doing. We're taking a proactive, rather than a reactive, approach to it.

    You don't address the entire student body that to the most part is getting along when the problem is a few individuals that are being uncivil to their fellow students.
    A dress code addresses a large range of issues, not just bullying. Less bullying is just one of the benefits.

    Actually, it was. His intent on bringing it up was to appeal to my emotions.
    No, it wasn't. It was a question posed to you in hopes you might fully understand the ramifications of bullying. We now see it's not so much you don't understand as it is you don't really care.

    There is no such thing taking place. I just reject the argument that bullying is a legitimate reason to restrict the freedom of innocent parties.
    As I've mentioned, it's not the only benefit to a stricter dress code.
    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Don't try to make this all about fashion
    Uhh, that's what YOU are doing. You are making this about fashion. We've already shown the different ways a student can express him or herself. You reject all of those (or at the very least ignore them) and simply settle on fashion statements.

    Parents that have to pay for uniforms for school use then another set of clothing to wear when their children regain their freedoms to express themselves after school is a financial burden for many.
    I'm sorry, did you really just say parents HAVE to buy a certain set of clothing for their children to express themselves?

    That's the biggest load of BS I think I've read in this thread.

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