• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Is communism possible in the USA?

Is communism possible in the USA?

  • Yes, Soviet type of communism

    Votes: 9 9.1%

  • Yes, community type of communism

    Votes: 10 10.1%

  • Yes, religious type of communism

    Votes: 2 2.0%

  • Yes, other type of communism

    Votes: 12 12.1%

  • No, not possible

    Votes: 57 57.6%

  • Dunno

    Votes: 3 3.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 6 6.1%
  • Total voters
    99
Canell said:
Communism is not a trade mark of Mr. Karl Marx, you know. ;)
In fact, what he proposed is just the opposite of Communism.
Click to expand...

I know that marxist communism is not the only kind of communism. And marxism-lenninism was a pretty close catch to what Marx intended. It wasn't completely identical to what he proposed because what he proposed was delusional and impossible to realize in the world (because he was a moron who couldn't think properly) but it was close enough.
Stalinism was another version of communism.
Chinesse communism comes in around 3-4 stages, from Mao's kind of communism to what we have today in China it's very different. Especially economically.

Communism was implemented differently in each of the countries that was under the iron curtain at different stages in the lifespan of the socialist republics.
Cuban communism was not like soviet communism either. And what was cubban communism 30 years ago is not what it is today.
N. Korean communism is not like any of the above 100%.

Just like every country in the free world is different and implements the ideas of freedom and liberty and capitalism differently, in wide variations, so is communism. Marx and Engel were the gay parents of communism, but the children that adopted their mentality ran in all directions and adapted it to how they saw it.

Gay parents here doesn't mean that they were gay. No, Marx may have been a pedo but that's not important now. Nor is it an attack on gay parents. But both Marx and Engel were men, so I couldn't say that they had children... it doesn't make sense.
 
Artevelde said:
For better or for worse, the term Communism refers to a specific ideology that does have Karl Marx as one of its main theorists.

I understand you want to use it to refer to other forms of societal arrangements, but that only obscures the discussion.
Click to expand...

Actually, you are wrong. It's true that Marxist communism is the most popular one, but as you can see here, there is a much broader definition of that term too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism#Early_communism

There is even an entire entry on "religious communism":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_communism

Or "utopian communism":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopian_socialism
 
Artevelde said:
For better or for worse, the term Communism refers to a specific ideology that does have Karl Marx as one of its main theorists.

I understand you want to use it to refer to other forms of societal arrangements, but that only obscures the discussion.
Click to expand...

If I call myself Superman it doesn't mean that I am. ;) Communism comes from "commune".

Anyway, your remark is right and I learned the distinction between Communism and Communalism. :peace
 
German guy said:
Actually, you are wrong. It's true that Marxist communism is the most popular one, but as you can see here, there is a much broader definition of that term too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism#Early_communism

There is even an entire entry on "religious communism":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_communism

Or "utopian communism":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utopian_socialism
Click to expand...

So your point is that Communism means everything and thus absolutely nothing?

By those terms North Korea is a democracy, since it calls itself a democracy.
 
Artevelde said:
I can provide you with quotes from Hitler saying he was only interested in peace. I guess that would prove conclusively to you that he was a pacifist?
Click to expand...

I bet I can provide you with a lot more quotes from Hitler saying that God was on his side and that he owed his success to the Almighty....and he was just doing God's work.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler
 
Moot said:
I bet I can provide you with a lot more quotes from Hitler saying that God was on his side and that he owed his success to the Almighty....and he was just doing God's work.

Adolf Hitler - Wikiquote
Click to expand...

I could tell you that a lot of psychopaths hear voices in their head encouraging them to kill people. Doesn't mean that God was really there.
 
Artevelde said:
So your point is that Communism means everything and thus absolutely nothing?

By those terms North Korea is a democracy, since it calls itself a democracy.
Click to expand...

You can't have a democracy if you have a single party state.
 
Only if people can have a total personality transplantation in which character trades as "envy, jealousy, hoarding, capitalism and competitiveness" could be removed from everyone in the population because as long as these kinds of personality trades are in the human psyche it will be impossible for communism to be a success.
 
Rainman05 said:
I could tell you that a lot of psychopaths hear voices in their head encouraging them to kill people. Doesn't mean that God was really there.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter as long as people believe it...and Hitler believed he was ordained by God...especially after the Almighty saved him from assassination. He took that as sign from God that he was on the right path.
 
Moot said:
Oh ye of little faith. My source was the "Communist Party USA".


"Communists are not against religion. We are against capitalism. In fact, the Party has its own Religion Commission which seeks to build positive relations with religious people and communities in the struggle to make life better for working people. Most religious people believe in justice, peace, and respectful relations among the peoples of the world, and many are motivated by their faith to work for those goals.

Membership in the Communist Party is open to all who agree with our program, regardless of religious beliefs."

FAQ » cpusa
Click to expand...

we all know that Marx said "religion is the opium of the people" but in reality, communism can sit quite comfortably alongside religion. the catholic church is alive and well in Cuba, in post Stalinist USSR, several orthodox churches were revived, and while most religion was suppressed in Vietnam, one branch of Buddhism was acceptable.
 
marywollstonecraft said:
we all know that Marx said "religion is the opium of the people" but in reality, communism can sit quite comfortably alongside religion. the catholic church is alive and well in Cuba, in post Stalinist USSR, several orthodox churches were revived, and while most religion was suppressed in Vietnam, one branch of Buddhism was acceptable.
Click to expand...

All Communist regimes have sought to suppress religion. Then again, Communist regimes try to suppress any form of dissent and alternative authority since Communism is inherently totalitarian and anti-democratic.
 
Communists believe that the reason communism has failed every time it has been tried as an economic system is the wrong people tried it.
 
Artevelde said:
All Communist regimes have sought to suppress religion. Then again, Communist regimes try to suppress any form of dissent and alternative authority since Communism is inherently totalitarian and anti-democratic.
Click to expand...

you need to do a bit more research.
 
I don't think communism is possible in America, certainly not the Marxist variant. The American people is too individualistic to accept economic collectivism.

But I think under extreme circumstances, some kind of fascism or right-wing authoritarianism would be possible, as collectivist ideas are acceptable as long as they don't directly touch the economy. It would have to be based on collectivist notions that are acceptable to some extent in America, like patriotism/nationalism and militarism. I think it was Dwight Eisenhower who said "if tyranny ever comes to our country, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy".

It probably works in any country; just say you need to skip some civil rights in favor of "national security" or "because it's war", and people will accept it as long as they're afraid enough and have a reasonable concept of the enemy.

Take the "Red Scare" and McCarthyism of the 50s or the post-9/11 scare, take it to the extreme and add reckless leaders to the mix who are willing to really abuse such events ... et voilà.
 
German guy said:
I don't think communism is possible in America, certainly not the Marxist variant. The American people is too individualistic to accept economic collectivism.

But I think under extreme circumstances, some kind of fascism or right-wing authoritarianism would be possible, as collectivist ideas are acceptable as long as they don't directly touch the economy. It would have to be based on collectivist notions that are acceptable to some extent in America, like patriotism/nationalism and militarism. I think it was Dwight Eisenhower who said "if tyranny ever comes to our country, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy".

It probably works in any country; just say you need to skip some civil rights in favor of "national security" or "because it's war", and people will accept it as long as they're afraid enough and have a reasonable concept of the enemy.
Click to expand...

A real fascist or authoritarian form of government is as unlikely as a communist regime in the United States, but obviously not impossible. But again, then it will no longer be the United States since it will involve abolishing the current system of society and the Constitution.
 
Artevelde said:
A real fascist or authoritarian form of government is as unlikely as a communist regime in the United States, but obviously not impossible. But again, then it will no longer be the United States since it will involve abolishing the current system of society and the Constitution.
Click to expand...

Yes.

And I think the circumstances would have to be really extreme for something like this to happen.
 
German guy said:
Yes.

And I think the circumstances would have to be really extreme for something like this to happen.
Click to expand...

Then again, no system of government and no State lasts forever. Nor will the United States in its current form. What will replace it time will tell.
 
Artevelde said:
All Communist regimes have sought to suppress religion. Then again, Communist regimes try to suppress any form of dissent and alternative authority since Communism is inherently totalitarian and anti-democratic.
Click to expand...

What a coincidence, religion has a long and violent history of suppressing any form of dissent and alternative authority, too.


Anyway, Hitler was a protestant and the German Evangelical Church supported the Nazi's....


"The Protestant Reich Church, officially The German Evangelical Church (German: Deutsche Evangelische Kirche) and colloquially Reichskirche, was a unified state church that espoused a single doctrine compatible with National Socialism...."
Protestant Reich Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Moot said:
What a coincidence, religion has a long and violent history of suppressing any form of dissent and alternative authority, too.


Anyway, Hitler was a protestant and the German Evangelical Church supported the Nazi's....


"The Protestant Reich Church, officially The German Evangelical Church (German: Deutsche Evangelische Kirche) and colloquially Reichskirche, was a unified state church that espoused a single doctrine compatible with National Socialism...."
Protestant Reich Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Click to expand...

Bravo, you succeeded in including errors in all of your sentences. Too bad you're so factually challenged. Makes it a bit difficult to engage in discussion.
 
Artevelde said:
Bravo, you succeeded in including errors in all of your sentences. Too bad you're so factually challenged. Makes it a bit difficult to engage in discussion.
Click to expand...

I'll take that as your concession.
 
Moot said:
I'll take that as your concession.
Click to expand...

Yes, I concede I don't know how to discuss things with people who don't have a clue about the facts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom