View Poll Results: Is communism possible in the USA?

Voters
113. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, Soviet type of communism

    12 10.62%
  • Yes, community type of communism

    14 12.39%
  • Yes, religious type of communism

    2 1.77%
  • Yes, other type of communism

    14 12.39%
  • No, not possible

    61 53.98%
  • Dunno

    3 2.65%
  • Other

    7 6.19%
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Thread: Is communism possible in the USA?

  1. #511
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    Gonzo Rodeo's Avatar
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    yeah...some people are so painfully stupid they actually believe that unless you are sweating your ass off and killing yourself, you are not working. Apparently companies just run themselves and supplies and materials just show up by magic.
    I once worked for an enormous aviation association. My job was to coordinate and schedule personnel and training for compliance. While I only flew a small percentage of the time and never turned a single wrench, the hundreds and hundreds of people I was responsible for could not have done their jobs without me. I was one of the hardest working people in that organization, and I did it all from my desk.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

  2. #512
    Farts in Elevators
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    I once worked for an enormous aviation association. My job was to coordinate and schedule personnel and training for compliance. While I only flew a small percentage of the time and never turned a single wrench, the hundreds and hundreds of people I was responsible for could not have done their jobs without me. I was one of the hardest working people in that organization, and I did it all from my desk.
    I am a supply officer in the army reserves. the last year I spent in Iraq was probably the hardest I ever worked in my life. processing 7 years worth or accumulated crap left behind by units when they went home. 16-18 hour days, 6-7 days a week. inventorying containers and trying to track down who the crap belonged to
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    So, people who sit at desks by definition don't work, according to you.
    Sorry misunderstanding, there are jobs that are in need of people to do paper work. I meant someone overlooking the whole thing, like a CEO or share holder. Desk Positions that needed for a production and are very important.
    Sometimes - history needs a push.
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  4. #514
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by AngryOldGuy View Post
    Strong back weak mind 12.6 watts
    I believe that the brain can cause exhaustion.
    Sometimes - history needs a push.
    Vladimir Lenin

  5. #515
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by dnsmith View Post
    Let's put it this way; through force communism can be established anywhere. But communism will never thrive or create social prosperity no matter where it is. The very idea of forced socialism/communism is dunce cap material. (I have lived in a socialist environment)
    Who said anything about forcing socialism and communism. The USSR under stalin has been questionable to label its economy as Communism.

    Don't forget that their was a large socialist movement in the U.S. Eugene Debs, Mother Jones, Daniel Deleon, Upton Sinclair and others. It was not forced, it was by popular idea.
    Sometimes - history needs a push.
    Vladimir Lenin

  6. #516
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    CEO's and shareholders are the one's that give jerbs to them lil wage slaves.
    Them evil 'job creators' that are electing to not participate in this Obamanation.
    Give us another Ronnie Raygun and we'll do another 80's boom and all you Liberals
    can criticize the Yuppies and the dinks (Dual Income, No Kids) again.

  7. #517
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Clearly you've never worked in an organization. A "coordinator" without management powers is quite useless. Somebody has to make desicions and there is no getting around this fact. Now, the idea of voting on the person who gets to make the decisions is not entirely without merit, yet still falls prerilously short of effective when an unpopular decision (that may be the better decision) will get a person unelected. Its the same reasoning for why we don't let our kids vote on what to have for dinner - they lack the necessary knowledge to make good decisions.
    I'd like to challenge that by making four points:

    1. Incompetency can occur, whiter there is one leader, or ten, or twenty. If anything, group decision making is more effective, just based on the volume of cognitive capital. So no, there doesn't need to be "somebody to make decisions", there just needs to be a way of making them effectively.
    2. I disagree that workers "lack the necessary knowledge to make good decisions". Especially in their field - because each department/group has a degree of autonomy, following a similar model to Agile Product Development -, workers are experts, making them best equipped to make decisions in that field.
    3. Knowing that workers can be effective self-managers removes the need for a capitalist and the profit model. Profits and non-productive employees come with a cost to productive employees (decreasing their pay) and consumers (Increasing prices.) So from an efficiency standpoint, worker-ownership is the way to go.
    3. I've regularly attended meetings of the post-national-disintegration Occupy. Their operations are wildly efficient. There's a larger organizing body, which consists of all the group's members. This body is presented proposals to vote on by smaller groups, called working groups. These proposals come with an argument for why they should be carried out, followed by a short period of debate, and a straw poll. The working groups, in their case, are open to any member, and contributions are based on merit - the person who's best at a certain thing will do it. G.A. Cohen's ideas of socialist EoA and community are very prevalent. People provide their services not because they're forced to, or paid to, but because they genuinely want to. And because they know that if they don't, things won't get done and it'll all fall apart. ---- I see very real applications for this in the workplace. It happens quite a bit, as I showed in an earlier post, and it'll likely be happening a lot more.

  8. #518
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Org View Post
    I'd like to challenge that by making four points:

    1. Incompetency can occur, whiter there is one leader, or ten, or twenty. If anything, group decision making is more effective, just based on the volume of cognitive capital. So no, there doesn't need to be "somebody to make decisions", there just needs to be a way of making them effectively.
    2. I disagree that workers "lack the necessary knowledge to make good decisions". Especially in their field - because each department/group has a degree of autonomy, following a similar model to Agile Product Development -, workers are experts, making them best equipped to make decisions in that field.
    3. Knowing that workers can be effective self-managers removes the need for a capitalist and the profit model. Profits and non-productive employees come with a cost to productive employees (decreasing their pay) and consumers (Increasing prices.) So from an efficiency standpoint, worker-ownership is the way to go.
    3. I've regularly attended meetings of the post-national-disintegration Occupy. Their operations are wildly efficient. There's a larger organizing body, which consists of all the group's members. This body is presented proposals to vote on by smaller groups, called working groups. These proposals come with an argument for why they should be carried out, followed by a short period of debate, and a straw poll. The working groups, in their case, are open to any member, and contributions are based on merit - the person who's best at a certain thing will do it. G.A. Cohen's ideas of socialist EoA and community are very prevalent. People provide their services not because they're forced to, or paid to, but because they genuinely want to. And because they know that if they don't, things won't get done and it'll all fall apart. ---- I see very real applications for this in the workplace. It happens quite a bit, as I showed in an earlier post, and it'll likely be happening a lot more.
    Add secrecy and you have communist cells?
    If you live long enough, you will live in a foreign country, because the past is foreign to the present. We lived differently then. The only constant is change!

  9. #519
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by yobarnacle View Post
    Add secrecy and you have communist cells?
    Yeah, following a Bakunist sentiment, many leftist political groups do operate like that.

  10. #520
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    I once worked for an enormous aviation association. My job was to coordinate and schedule personnel and training for compliance. While I only flew a small percentage of the time and never turned a single wrench, the hundreds and hundreds of people I was responsible for could not have done their jobs without me. I was one of the hardest working people in that organization, and I did it all from my desk.
    According to Marxists, your labor would hold no value because it has no tangential, direct, or measurable help to the task being completed.

    This is why China went backwards so far during the Great Leap Forward. Ironic.

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