View Poll Results: Is communism possible in the USA?

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  • Yes, Soviet type of communism

    12 10.62%
  • Yes, community type of communism

    14 12.39%
  • Yes, religious type of communism

    2 1.77%
  • Yes, other type of communism

    14 12.39%
  • No, not possible

    61 53.98%
  • Dunno

    3 2.65%
  • Other

    7 6.19%
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Thread: Is communism possible in the USA?

  1. #381
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    No, that's for a business loan. Many people start a business with their own savings. I don't recommend anyone attempt to start a business if they aren't able to save enough to start the business, or able to secure investment or credit to start the business. You can, but it would be like getting up off your couch and trying out for the Olympics with zero training.
    he said with zero money.

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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    hah I was in the hole when I started out!
    nuthin' from nuthin' leaves nuthin'
    ya gotta have sumthin' if ya wanna be with me!

    we all come into this world nekkid, screaming and flat broke
    not everyone leaves that way?

  3. #383
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by jag2594 View Post
    You just said that you were an enlisted puke. The fact you use that language shows that even you believe enlisted are inferior.
    and the fact that all you got from my post is this shows that you don't know what the hell you are talking about. enlisted have their job to do, officers have their job to do. neither is "inferior". maybe if you ever actually serve in the military (or make it beyond lance corporal) you might actually get a clue.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

  4. #384
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by jag2594 View Post
    he said with zero money.
    Zero of your own money, sure. Many people get investment from friends and family to start a business. I'd be skeptical of someone asking me for money, when they are putting up none of their own though. It costs money to file though, maybe around $100-$200. Hardly an insurmountable hurdle.

  5. #385
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    You seem to be confusing the unrealistic ideals on which Communism is based with the empirical results of every attempt that has been made to put those ideals into practice.

    Marx did not intent or expect that trying to follow his ideals would lead to mass-murder and brutal oppression. He was, of course, very much mistaken.
    While communism of Marx is far different than the law of consecration, the Book of Mormon is a critique against individualistic competitive materialism and supports a collectivist type of economic system. Not a forced one, but one where individuals use their free agency to make covenants to share God's wealth.

    2 And it came to pass in the thirty and sixth year, the people were all converted unto the Lord, upon all the face of the land, both Nephites and Lamanites, and there were no contentions and disputations among them, and every man did deal justly one with another.
    3 And they had all things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift. - 4 Nephi 2:2-3
    4 And it came to pass that the thirty and seventh year passed away also, and there still continued to be peace in the land.
    5 And there were great and marvelous works wrought by the disciples of Jesus, insomuch that they did heal the sick, and raise the dead, and cause the lame to walk, and the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear; and all manner of miracles did they work among the children of men; and in nothing did they work miracles save it were in the name of Jesus.
    6 And thus did the thirty and eighth year pass away, and also the thirty and ninth, and forty and first, and the forty and second, yea, even until forty and nine years had passed away, and also the fifty and first, and the fifty and second; yea, and even until fifty and nine years had passed away.
    7 And the Lord did prosper them exceedingly in the land; yea, insomuch that they did build cities again where there had been cities burned.
    8 Yea, even that great acity Zarahemla did they cause to be built again.
    9 But there were many cities which had been sunk, and waters came up in the stead thereof; therefore these cities could not be renewed.
    10 And now, behold, it came to pass that the people of Nephi did wax strong, and did multiply exceedingly fast, and became an exceedingly fair and delightsome people.
    11 And they were married, and given in marriage, and were blessed according to the multitude of the promises which the Lord had made unto them.
    12 And they did not walk any more after the performances and ordinances of the law of Moses; but they did walk after the commandments which they had received from their Lord and their God, continuing in fasting and prayer, and in meeting together oft both to pray and to hear the word of the Lord.
    13 And it came to pass that there was no contention among all the people, in all the land; but there were mighty miracles wrought among the disciples of Jesus.
    14 And it came to pass that the seventy and first year passed away, and also the seventy and second year, yea, and in fine, till the seventy and ninth year had passed away; yea, even an hundred years had passed away, and the disciples of Jesus, whom he had chosen, had all gone to the paradise of God, save it were the three who should tarry; and there were other disciples ordained in their stead; and also many of that generation had passed away.
    15 And it came to pass that there was no contention in the land, because of the love of God which did dwell in the hearts of the people.
    16 And there were no envyings, nor strifes, nor tumults, nor whoredoms, nor lyings, nor murders, nor any manner of lasciviousness; and surely there could not be a happier people among all the people who had been created by the hand of God.
    17 There were no robbers, nor murderers, neither were there Lamanites, nor any manner of -ites; but they were in aone, the children of Christ, and heirs to the kingdom of God.
    18 And how blessed were they! For the Lord did bless them in all their doings; yea, even they were blessed and prospered until an hundred and ten years had passed away; and the first generation from Christ had passed away, and there was no contention in all the land.

    So at the zenith of Nephite civilization, they lived a collective economic system where all things were shared in common. Things would later change as they became really prosperous and some began to have pride and seek to prosper above the group:

    22 And it came to pass that two hundred years had passed away; and the second generation had all passed away save it were a few.
    23 And now I, Mormon, would that ye should know that the people had multiplied, insomuch that they were spread upon all the face of the land, and that they had become exceedingly arich, because of their prosperity in Christ.
    24 And now, in this two hundred and first year there began to be among them those who were lifted up in apride, such as the wearing of costly apparel, and all manner of fine pearls, and of the fine things of the world.
    25 And from that time forth they did have their goods and their substance no more acommon among them.
    26 And they began to be divided into classes; and they began to build up achurches unto themselves to get bgain, and began to deny the true church of Christ.
    27 And it came to pass that when two hundred and ten years had passed away there were many churches in the land; yea, there were many churches which professed to know the Christ, and yet they did adeny the more parts of his gospel, insomuch that they did receive all manner of wickedness, and did administer that which was sacred unto him to whom it had been bforbiddenbecause of unworthiness.
    28 And this church did multiply exceedingly because of iniquity, and because of the power of Satan who did get hold upon their hearts.

    The Book of Mormon, like the New Testament gospels is clear what riches above your basic needs should go to if you are a true follower of Christ:

    17 Think of your brethren like unto yourselves, and be familiar with all and free with your substance, that they may be rich like unto you.
    18 But before ye seek for riches, seek ye for the kingdom of God.
    19 And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent to do good—to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted. Jacob 2:17-19



    The Saints of the New Testament "The Church of Jesus Christ" had the same economic policy:

    32 And the multitude of them that believed were of aone heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that bought of the things which he cpossessed was his own; but they had all things dcommon.
    33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
    34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
    35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. Acts 4:32-35

    When God restored The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints through the prophet Joseph Smith the same economic policy was implemented:

    15 And it is my purpose to provide for my saints, for all things are mine.
    16 But it must needs be done in mine own away; and behold this is the way that I, the Lord, have decreed to provide for my saints, that the poor shall be exalted, in that the rich are made low.
    17 For the earth is full, and there is enough and to spare; yea, I prepared all things, and have given unto the children of men to be agents unto themselves.
    18 Therefore, if any man shall take of the abundance which I have made, and impart not his portion, according to the law of my gospel, unto the poor and the needy, he shall, with the wicked, lift up his eyes in hell, being in torment. D&C 15-18

    In a very symbolic name change to the city they had gathered to, after the latter day saints adopted the Lord's economic system, they changed the name from Commerce to Nauvoo which in Hebrew means "beautiful". And they built the most beautiful city in the American frontier. After the Mormons fled on their exodus they tried to implement this economic policy again but too many of them were too materialist. Brigham Young explained it something like this, a man would have three extra horses he didn't need but instead of giving them to those in need he'd rationalize well I may have more kids and they'll need the horses, etc. Given so many were too covetous, like the Israelites in Sinai, who were chastised and given a lesser law as a way to prepare them at a later date for the higher law, the Church implemented the 10% tithing and welfare fast the first of each month where you can give what your conscience guides as a way to prepare the Church for the future.
    Last edited by laska; 08-07-13 at 07:02 PM.

  6. #386
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    Zero of your own money, sure. Many people get investment from friends and family to start a business. I'd be skeptical of someone asking me for money, when they are putting up none of their own though. It costs money to file though, maybe around $100-$200. Hardly an insurmountable hurdle.
    You don't need to file to start a business. As a sole proprietor, there are no filing fees and as long as you're doing business in your own name, you don't even have to file with the city or state. There are no hurdles to leap over. The government actually does not want to create any obstacle for your doing business and you can just jump right in, provide a service, charge for it and you're in business. Some businesses will require startup money. Some will not. It depends on what sort of business you are doing. You can start a consulting business for zero dollars. You can start mowing lawns for zero dollars (provided you have a lawnmower). You can start a handyman business with zero dollars (although you need some basic tools). You can walk dogs, groom dogs, tutor children, give yoga lessons, detail cars, make custom clothing, tailoring, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc....

    If you want to do business, start doing business. There are millions of people in this country and damned near all of them buy goods and services. If you can convince them to buy goods or services from you, you're in business. The bitch is that you have to get off your ass and work. You have to hustle business. You have to handle the accounting. You have to pay your taxes. You have to promote yourself. You have to handle customer service. You don't get to sit on your ass counting money, but that's OK because virtually no one else does, either. The great thing about being in business for yourself is that you are free to negotiate your wages more frequently and do so with more "employers" because essentially all your customers become your "employer" when you are in business for yourself. You still have to keep them happy. You still have to give them what they want. You still have to be more competitive than the next guy who might want the money and the work more than you do. The good news is that you get to keep the profits from your work. The bad news is that if you aren't very good at doing business, you still won't be making any money and worse yet, you can only blame yourself then.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  7. #387
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    My kid graduates lawl school next May
    We were talkin' 'bout how he should turn down that 100K a year wage slave position he's bean offered cuz yanno
    yer nevah gonna git rich spending all yer time workin' to make someone else rich

    and the beat goes on...

  8. #388
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    You don't need to file to start a business. As a sole proprietor, there are no filing fees and as long as you're doing business in your own name, you don't even have to file with the city or state. There are no hurdles to leap over.
    Thanks for the clarification. I formed an LLC and never looked at sole proprietorship. $200 was not a huge hurdle either way.

  9. #389
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    The bad news is that if you aren't very good at doing business, you still won't be making any money and worse yet, you can only blame yourself then.
    I disagree wholeheartedly

    You can have your own deal and be a total mediocre slug
    and still make way more income and be twice as happy as you'd be working to make someone else's beemer payments

  10. #390
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    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by jag2594 View Post
    Wrong again, when the rich collects money at the top that is causes low monetary velocity. Which means that the money is not getting back into the economy. Its the middle class who grow the economy because they are consumers not collectors. This is called the redistributive effect, which doesn't happen when the rich collects it all. Thats why I showed the chart where in 1929 the rich collect 44% which cause the great depression.
    You really should take some classes in economics because you don't know what you are talking about. The rich don't just "collect cash" and stash it under their mattress. The rich typically have most of their money in assets and not all of them are liquid but even the liquid assets are still at work in the economy. Maybe you want to argue that they have a mansion and that's just money sitting there that's "not in the economy", but if you do then you have to ignore the fact that they had to pay hard cash for that and that the value of that property and all the work being done on it went "back into the economy". When you read about some super-rich mogul worth a billion dollars, you might think that's money that has been "extracted from the economy" but it's not. It's wealth that person created through his business and unless it's cash sitting under his mattress, his wealth is never just "locked up" doing nothing.

    Seiously, learn something about economics and then come back and discuss the beauty of communism with us.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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