View Poll Results: Is communism possible in the USA?

Voters
113. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, Soviet type of communism

    12 10.62%
  • Yes, community type of communism

    14 12.39%
  • Yes, religious type of communism

    2 1.77%
  • Yes, other type of communism

    14 12.39%
  • No, not possible

    61 53.98%
  • Dunno

    3 2.65%
  • Other

    7 6.19%
Page 18 of 62 FirstFirst ... 8161718192028 ... LastLast
Results 171 to 180 of 617

Thread: Is communism possible in the USA?

  1. #171
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The Republic of Texas.
    Last Seen
    11-15-17 @ 11:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,647

    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    So subjecting you to the will of others by penalizing you for driving above the speed limit is slavery? Subjecting you to the will of others by making you turn off your cell phone in a movie theatre is slavery? Subjecting you to the will of others by not allowing you to trespass in my home is slavery?
    Of those, all but the speed limit one is ensuring one persons rights do not interfere with another's, not subjugation to the will of others. (I don't like speed limits, but generally obey them anyway, too expensive not to). Taking all that someone has earned or created and then redistributing it to others who have not earned it is subjugating the individual to the will of society.

    Protection of rights is not subjugation.
    Redistribution of wealth is.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  2. #172
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    To save the poll from influence, I will spare my opinion for the time being.

    So, is communism possible in the USA?
    Yes, the standard form (like China) could very well exist in the US, particularly given the State Centric path we have been following along with the emergence of the new aristocracy and corporate capitalism. We already jail more of our population than anyone else, we'd just need to kick up the executions to get closer to China.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #173
    Uncanny
    Paschendale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Last Seen
    03-31-16 @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    12,510

    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Of those, all but the speed limit one is ensuring one persons rights do not interfere with another's, not subjugation to the will of others. (I don't like speed limits, but generally obey them anyway, too expensive not to). Taking all that someone has earned or created and then redistributing it to others who have not earned it is subjugating the individual to the will of society.

    Protection of rights is not subjugation.
    Redistribution of wealth is.
    What you and many of your ilk completely fail to understand is that we already redistribute wealth. We redistribute it from the working class to the owner class. The movements that you so vehemently oppose want to stop that from happening. I don't know why so many Americans support an aristocracy, but you and yours are working to achieve exactly that outcome.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  4. #174
    Sage
    Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 01:05 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    54,124

    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    If the Constitution is not upheld at all then anything is possible, but I think that it would be more likely that a Fascist Regime would be more probable than a Communist one.
    We already have the fascist regime going. Insistence on "patriotism" enforced through fear and aggressive use of government force, constant monitoring and recording, the corporate capitalist model, infinity war, the emergence of the new aristocracy, the rapidly accelerating gap in wealth distribution (aiding to the emergence of the new aristocracy), etc.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  5. #175
    double secret probation AngryOldGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Phx,Az
    Last Seen
    03-31-14 @ 10:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    2,917

    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    DV what I find astounding is how willingly people large & small will allow the subjugation of: "Redistribution of wealth" .
    We Americans have become so inured to the idea that paying:
    a capital gains tax
    corporate income tax
    personal income tax
    FICA (twice if you are an employer) and or
    self employment tax
    Medicare/medicaid tax
    and then
    (in most states)
    State Income tax
    har then when you go to spend it
    city sales tax?
    federal gasoline taxes
    cost rolled into every product and or service due to the businesses being taxed
    wait
    there's no way I can hope to list all of it, it is insanely out of control
    then to top it off we are told the rich aren't paying enough although they are the one's paying the vast majority
    and to add insult to injury the Feds (and many States) run Huge ruinous deficits that would crush any normal
    privately owned business or send a private citizen into bankruptcy court

    and starting in 2014 there is the wunderful Affordable Care Act with it's bevy of taxes?

    subjugation yup

    and the commie mofo's are clamoring for More, More More socialism?


  6. #176
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The Republic of Texas.
    Last Seen
    11-15-17 @ 11:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    5,647

    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    What you and many of your ilk completely fail to understand is that we already redistribute wealth. We redistribute it from the working class to the owner class. The movements that you so vehemently oppose want to stop that from happening. I don't know why so many Americans support an aristocracy, but you and yours are working to achieve exactly that outcome.
    No, I support a meritocracy not an aristocracy. Aristocracy is inherited and remains stagnant regardless of the actions of the individual, a meritocracy will see rises and failings based upon the merits of the individual. The working class takes money from the owner class also. How much a particular worker earns is based upon the value the worker gives and his value in a competitive market. The owner pays a "fair" wage, which really means he pays either the minimum to get the work done or he pays more to receive greater value from the work.

    If a worker is only qualified for a McJob and there are 100 of them for each job, "fair" wage isn't going to be much. If however you need a pipeline welder which requires great skill and there are 100 jobs for each welder, then that worker, the welder, is going to do pretty darned good.

    Merit, the skills and attitude to do a job controls the workers wage, not owners. The owners who need the work done will pay what is necessary to get the work done. When the cost of labor for the owner exceeds what the consumer is willing to pay, then the business fails, period. How much profit a business gets is controlled by how much competition there is in the market for the product sold/produced. Reduce competition and profit/wealth concentrate with the few instead of spread out over the many. The reduction also reduces the number of jobs available and thus lowers the pay for workers because there are more workers available than jobs.

    No form of socialism can change those dynamics without totally breaking the whole system. Over Regulated capitalism interferes with the proper working of that dynamic. Under regulated capitalism/corporatism can to monopolies and greatly concentrate wealth.

    But since socialism is not only economic but social, it tries to "balance" what each person gets instead of letting each person receive what they have earned. In doing so, it subjugates the productive/earners to the none-productive/earners.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  7. #177
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Theoretical Physics Lab
    Last Seen
    01-06-15 @ 11:06 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    25,120

    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Artevelde View Post
    Communism is inherently anti-democratic, totalitarian and bloodthirsty. The historical record is there to prove it.
    There is no historical record of it because communism has never existed on anything even close to large-scale. The best shot you have of saying "communism existed" was Spain long, long ago - pre-Franco. Even that, in my opinion, was not true communism. About the largest example of organized communism were several monastic cloisters of times long past.

    Lots of countries are described as "communist" by propagandists and "red scare" re-creators, but the word mostly exists as agitprop by highly uninformed people. I prefer to speak of communism by real terms instead of slanderous pejoratives.

  8. #178
    double secret probation AngryOldGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Phx,Az
    Last Seen
    03-31-14 @ 10:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    2,917

    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    "Merit, the skills and attitude to do a job controls the workers wage, not owners"

    So DV I am just guessing here but you haven't spent years signing the front of paychecks eh?

  9. #179
    Uncanny
    Paschendale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    New York City
    Last Seen
    03-31-16 @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Socialist
    Posts
    12,510

    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    No, I support a meritocracy not an aristocracy. Aristocracy is inherited and remains stagnant regardless of the actions of the individual, a meritocracy will see rises and failings based upon the merits of the individual. The working class takes money from the owner class also. How much a particular worker earns is based upon the value the worker gives and his value in a competitive market. The owner pays a "fair" wage, which really means he pays either the minimum to get the work done or he pays more to receive greater value from the work.
    Well, that's not what your policies actually do. They stagnate power and wealth as much upward as possible. The "competitive market" is based wholly on the power of owners, with workers feeding on the scraps. Actual merit seldom makes even a little bit of difference. Most people obtain employment through connections or nepotism, not through talent or skill.

    If a worker is only qualified for a McJob and there are 100 of them for each job, "fair" wage isn't going to be much. If however you need a pipeline welder which requires great skill and there are 100 jobs for each welder, then that worker, the welder, is going to do pretty darned good.
    Artificial scarcity of work and artificial lowering of wages are tools to keep power and wealth moving ever upward. It has nothing to do with merit. It is merely setting the rules for the marketplace to benefit the rich and powerful over the poor, and denying them any power.

    Merit, the skills and attitude to do a job controls the workers wage, not owners. The owners who need the work done will pay what is necessary to get the work done. When the cost of labor for the owner exceeds what the consumer is willing to pay, then the business fails, period. How much profit a business gets is controlled by how much competition there is in the market for the product sold/produced. Reduce competition and profit/wealth concentrate with the few instead of spread out over the many. The reduction also reduces the number of jobs available and thus lowers the pay for workers because there are more workers available than jobs.
    That's absurd. There is, right now, far more labor available than there is work to do. Especially if you take out all the work that does nothing but produce profit, instead of actual goods or services. The idea that competition keeps wealth and power distributed is nonsense. It never has. It has no effect on the concentration or distribution of power at all.

    No form of socialism can change those dynamics without totally breaking the whole system. Over Regulated capitalism interferes with the proper working of that dynamic. Under regulated capitalism/corporatism can to monopolies and greatly concentrate wealth.
    The system is already totally broken. Or have you become so mired in this "job creator" nonsense that you don't see that the only thing standing between a worker and starvation is whether or not a rich person can make a profit off of their labor. The worker is, by definition, forced to sell their labor for less than it is worth. Sure, you can go into business for yourself, but then that vaunted competition comes in and the rich and powerful can do whatever they want to force you out of the market.

    But since socialism is not only economic but social, it tries to "balance" what each person gets instead of letting each person receive what they have earned. In doing so, it subjugates the productive/earners to the none-productive/earners.
    None of this is true. How difficult really is it to understand "from each according to their ability, to each according to their needs"? Everyone contributes, and everyone reaps the rewards.

    The future will unfold in one of two ways. Either we will stick with the current systems where all the power is held in the hands of a few people, and increasing technology will render labor less and less important, and more work will be done without humans. A growing population and fewer jobs (and the number will only continue to decrease) will mean a bigger underclass and lower pay. The impoverished class will grow, and the gap between rich and poor will widen. Or, we do not let the entire economic system continue to operate for the benefit of a few, and aim it to benefit everyone. Everyone will contribute, and no one will have to be overworked because there will be less work to do. And we can all enjoy the fruits of that labor. Do you want your capitalist dystopia, or do you want an egalitarian future where people are actually happy?
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  10. #180
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    02-18-14 @ 08:18 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    5,660

    Re: Is communism possible in the USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Only if it's called something else with a conservative ring to it...like say....Christianity.
    we have an attempt at a lower form of it now called Obamacare

Page 18 of 62 FirstFirst ... 8161718192028 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •