View Poll Results: I have completed the following formal educations

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  • None or very little

    3 3.53%
  • Attended school, but did not graduate

    1 1.18%
  • GED or graduated from high school

    19 22.35%
  • Some college

    18 21.18%
  • 2 year college degree

    17 20.00%
  • 4 year college degree

    32 37.65%
  • formal education based technical degree/certification

    16 18.82%
  • Military or other past-high school degree

    12 14.12%
  • Lawyer, doctor, other high education degree

    5 5.88%
  • Masters/PhD

    27 31.76%
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Thread: What is your level of formal education?

  1. #81
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    Re: What is your level of formal education?

    Quote Originally Posted by polisciguy View Post
    You're certainly right on the latter part. As for the former, I suppose I should clarify. In most instances, though eligible to teach law, the J.D. is considered a Master's level title, though often times the, I suppose, "spiritual" title of "doctor" is applied in the classroom. Though, I'd imagine in correspondence, insofar as academic work is concerned, one would still be considered as having a masters.

    Forgive me; apparently I was under the impression you thought one must have a PhD in order to teach law. While on the subject, I might add, it is often more beneficial to have a J.D. instruct a law class. Experience versus theory, for what it's worth.
    Well I am of the opinion that adjuncts who are actual active practitioners will teach you more than those who run to teaching as a life boat. There are not enough of the former and too many of the latter in law schools IMO.

  2. #82
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    Re: What is your level of formal education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I have a JD/MBA and it has always been treated as a dual masters for academic purposes. If someone treats it as a Phd. equivalent it would be news to me. Along the lines of what you indicated though, outside of law school and adjunct positions it is not particularly useful for someone who wants a full-time professorship and be treated as a Phd. would be.
    Hmm, I got this from (of course) Wikipedia which discusses "professional degrees":

    Professional doctorates are awarded in certain fields where scholarly research is closely aligned with a particular profession, such as law, medicine, or psychology. Examples include the US and Canadian degrees of Doctor of Medicine (M.D.), Doctor of Optometry (O.D.), Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm. D.), Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine (D.O.), Doctor of Dental Surgery (D.D.S.), Doctor of Dental Medicine (D.M.D.), Juris Doctor (J.D.), and Doctor of Ministry (D.Min).
    Please explain how every other listed "professional degree" awarding the level "doctorate" may use the honorific "Doctor," except a lawyer? America invented the professional doctorate with the first MD awarded by Columbia U. in 1767. The J.D. in 1870.

    I have a J.D. and an M.A. in history. I was told by my school one was a doctorate and one was not. I don't go around calling myself "Dr." or have it on any of my cards. I just never considered it that deeply before.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 08-01-13 at 01:43 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  3. #83
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    Re: What is your level of formal education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Well I am of the opinion that adjuncts who are actual active practitioners will teach you more than those who run to teaching as a life boat. There are not enough of the former and too many of the latter in law schools IMO.
    Well said, sir. I agree.

  4. #84
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    Re: What is your level of formal education?

    Well, the "D" in "JD" does stand for "doctor." Me, I wouldn't trust an attorney who styled him/herself in this way. Uncool. I have enough trouble with the convention of "esquire." I think this has changed, but it also used to be considered uncool in England for a physician to go by "doctor," and what was preferred was "Mr." I always thought it was really weird, but I think this has changed now.

  5. #85
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    Re: What is your level of formal education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Hmm, I got this from (of course) Wikipedia which discusses "professional degrees":



    Please explain how every other listed "professional degree" awarding the level "doctorate" may use the honorific "Doctor," except a lawyer? America invented the professional doctorate with the first MD awarded by Columbia U. in 1767. The J.D. in 1870.
    I think it likely an issue of both semantics, practice and a bit of arrogance here. A juris doctorate ought to, at least in my eyes, confer the title of "Doctor" upon those who have it, after all, as you said, all the aforementioned professional degrees have it conferred upon them. I speculate much of the issue comes from the fact that more often those with a J.D. practice rather than teach in academia, and given we have the more colloquial term of "council" or "attorney" for those with the degree, they are not, in general, referred to as "Doctor." And as for arrogance, and it is a sad truth, many in academia feel a J.D. should not be considered a "Doctorate" because a "Juris Doctorate" is somehow inherently easier to obtain or of less worth than a "Doctor of philosophy."
    Last edited by polisciguy; 08-01-13 at 01:55 AM.

  6. #86
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    Re: What is your level of formal education?

    Quote Originally Posted by polisciguy View Post
    I think it likely an issue of both semantics, practice and a bit of arrogance here. A juris doctorate ought to, at least in my eyes, confer the title of "Doctor" upon those who have it, after all, as you said, all the aforementioned professional degrees have it conferred upon them. I speculate much of the issue comes from the fact that more often those with a J.D. practice rather than teach in academia, and given we have the more colloquial term of "council" or "attorney" for those with the degree, they are not, in general, referred to as "Doctor." And as for arrogance, and it is a sad truth, many in academia feel a J.D. should not be considered a "Doctorate" because a "Juris Doctorate" is somehow inherently easier to obtain or of less worth that a "Doctor of philosophy."
    Well I understood all that before going to law school. We did call our instructors "professor," but then again in both my prior undergraduate and graduate programs we also called our instructor's professor, most of whom had Ph.D's. I suppose they could have all "demanded" we call them Doctor, but they never did. As one of my peers here pointed out, contrary to another peer's position, all you need to teach law is a J.D. and time as a licensed attorney. I only know about D.S.J.'s because I looked up LL.M's to see about getting one for Criminal Defense. Universities offering D.S.J.'s appear to be fairly rare.

    As for easy to obtain? Anyone who thinks that should apply and try to complete the ABA accredited programs...especially the first year and a half. That's when most student's tend to drop (or fail) out of the program.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 08-01-13 at 02:12 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

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    Re: What is your level of formal education?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Is it paying off for you?
    The education proved very worthwhile in and of itself. But yes, it also helped me on the path to a fairly interesting and succesful career.

  8. #88
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    Re: What is your level of formal education?

    Okay I have the definitive answer from the primary source, The American Bar Association. The ABA states that a J.D. and Ph.D. are equivalent; and individuals with a J.D. may use the title "Doctor" since they earned it.

    This is the current American Bar Association Council Statement regarding the equivalency of a J.D. and a Ph.D....

    http://www.americanbar.org/content/d...thcheckdam.pdf

    2. J.D. Degree - Ph.D. Degree Equivalency

    WHEREAS, the acquisition of a Doctor of Jurisprudence degree requires from 84 to 90 semester hours of post baccalaureate study and the Doctor of Philosophy degree usually requires 60 semester hours of post baccalaureate study along with the writing of a dissertation, the two degrees shall be considered as equivalent degrees for educational employment purposes;

    THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that all appropriate persons be requested to eliminate any policy, or practice, existing within their jurisdiction which disparages legal education or promotes discriminatory employment practices against J.D. degree-holders who hold academic appointment in education institutions.
    ...And ABA Model Code of Professional Responsibilty Rule 2-102(E) indicating the title derived from an earned degree may be used.

    http://www.americanbar.org/content/d...thcheckdam.pdf

    (E) -Nothing contained herein shall prohibit a lawyer from using or permitting the use of, in connection with his name, an earned degree or title derived therefrom indicating his training in the law.
    Research into the intepretation indicates that several states using the above citations confer the right to the title "Doctor" on individuals who have earned a J.D. These include NY, TX, various local Bars in CA, etc. I didn't check ALL States, so look to your own.

    NYSBA | Ethics Opinion 105a

    http://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template....ontentID=11911

    Ethics Opinions from the Bar Association of San Francisco

    However, lawyer's opinions are split on the value using it because of possible confusion or negative peer/client opinions.

    Is a J.D. a Doctorate? | LawSchooli.com

    THE NUTMEG LAWYER: I Have a JD. I Want to Be Called Doctor Too.

    Any Lawyer Who Calls Himself ‘Doctor’ Like a Ph.D. Should Get Punched in the Mouth Above the Law: A Legal Web Site – News, Commentary, and Opinions on Law Firms, Lawyers, Law Schools, Law Suits, Judges and Courts + Career Resource

    CONLUSION: A J.D. holder has a doctorate equal to any Ph.D holder. The ABA and various states indicate the title Doctor can be used, however check with your own State Bar for local confirmation. Having said that I do not advocate using it, this was simply to show YES, we are DOCTORS not holders of glorified Master's degrees.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 08-01-13 at 04:39 AM.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  9. #89
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    Re: What is your level of formal education?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Okay I have the definitive answer from the primary source, The American Bar Association. The ABA states that a J.D. and Ph.D. are equivalent; and individuals with a J.D. may use the title "Doctor" since they earned it.

    http://www.americanbar.org/content/d...thcheckdam.pdf

    This is the current American Bar Association Council Statement regarding the equivalency of a J.D. and a Ph.D....



    ...And ABA Model Code of Professional Responsibilty Rule 2-102(E) indicating the title derived from an earned degree may be used.



    Research into the intepretation indicates that several states using the above citations confer the right to the title "Doctor" on individuals who have earned a J.D. These include NY, TX, various local Bars in CA, etc.

    NYSBA | Ethics Opinion 105a

    http://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template....ontentID=11911

    Ethics Opinions from the Bar Association of San Francisco

    However, lawyer's opinions are split on the value using it because of possible confusion or negative peer/client opinions.

    Is a J.D. a Doctorate? | LawSchooli.com

    THE NUTMEG LAWYER: I Have a JD. I Want to Be Called Doctor Too.

    Any Lawyer Who Calls Himself ‘Doctor’ Like a Ph.D. Should Get Punched in the Mouth Above the Law: A Legal Web Site – News, Commentary, and Opinions on Law Firms, Lawyers, Law Schools, Law Suits, Judges and Courts + Career Resource

    CONLUSION: A J.D. holder has a doctorate equal to any Ph.D holder. The ABA and various states indicate the title Doctor can be used, however check with your own State Bar for local confirmation. Having said that I do not advocate using it, this was simply to show YES, we are DOCTORS not holders of glorified Master's degrees.
    On the whole I believe that most Law Schools tailor their JD programs to be more or less comparable to a PhD program in other disciplines. Some Law Schools, however, like Yale, offer an additional PhD in Law as a degree program for JD's who really want to pursue an academic career.

  10. #90
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    Re: What is your level of formal education?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    None of my friends from grad school do that.
    Me either. That's new one for me.










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