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Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

Which is more crucial

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ernst barkmann said:
since you claim to know it so well, explain a new power to me, for congress under the 14th...i am listening now, and waitng.
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I claim that I have read more than you and am open to hearing what scholars say. I claim you're stuck in rant loop that brings no understanding to the topic (a common flaw with tea party types). I claim that there is two hundred years of history that create the full picture.

Until you read the links and catch up, we will never get beyond your repetitive rants.
 
when i look at the constitution i read.... it has every amendment change in the constitution is red.

there are no new powers for congress given to them by amendments added to article 1 section 8

income taxes have been added to article 1 section 2 clause 3 as direct taxes, the reason is article 1 section 8 states, all taxes must be uniform.....income taxes are not uniform.
 
Boo Radley said:
I claim that I have read more than you and am open to hearing what scholars say. I claim you're stuck in rant loop that brings no understanding to the topic (a common flaw with tea party types). I claim that there is two hundred years of history that create the full picture.

Until you read the links and catch up, we will never get beyond your repetitive rants.
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so your saying that you will listen to other people who speak about the constitution, ..does this include people who know the founders, ..but were not founding fathers and wrote about the constitution?
 
ernst barkmann said:
so your saying that you will listen to other people who speak about the constitution, ..does this include people who know the founders, ..but were not founding fathers and wrote about the constitution?
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Nope. I read them as well. Again, it doesn't end there.
 
ernst barkmann said:
sorry redress, i dont let myself fall into your kind of act.

the constitution is clear no one can be force to do something if no crime has been committed.
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Which has what to do with your source being lies, distortions and wrong?
 
Redress said:
Which has what to do with your source being lies, distortions and wrong?
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Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
 
Boo Radley said:
Nope. I read them as well. Again, it doesn't end there.
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until you have an amendment to the constitution which gives congress more powers, and i dont see them, and you have not shown me, even though i asked you from a short little amendment like the 14th which you says does...still i have not seen anything.
 
ernst barkmann said:
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
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You still repeating this hyperbolic nonsense? It wasn't accurate in the other thread and it isn't accurate here. It's just nonsense.
 
ernst barkmann said:
until you have an amendment to the constitution which gives congress more powers, and i dont see them, and you have not shown me, even though i asked you from a short little amendment like the 14th which you says does...still i have not seen anything.
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That where you're factually wrong. Current amendments by nature if what they call for open the door. This is explained.

The Role of the Federal Government in Public Education in the United States

http://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-7-4-c-education-and-the-14th-amendment

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/jimcrow/stories_events_14th.html
 
Boo Radley said:
You still repeating this hyperbolic nonsense? It wasn't accurate in the other thread and it isn't accurate here. It's just nonsense.
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i have asked you repeatedly, for you evidence, which you say is in the 14th amendment ......show me your evidence, instead of telling me its there, copy and paste it for it..its very simple, i am sure you have the ability.
 
ernst barkmann said:
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
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And you are still evading that your source turned out to be a pack of lies and distortions.
 
Boo Radley said:
That where you're factually wrong. Current amendments by nature if what they call for open the door. This is explained.

The Role of the Federal Government in Public Education in the United States

BRIA 7 4 c Education and the 14th Amendment - Constitutional Rights Foundation

The Rise and Fall of Jim Crow . Jim Crow Stories . 14th Amendment Ratified | PBS
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please to me, how this justifies the federal government creating a department of education.

your post pertains to discrimination law, that state governments, with its schools cannot discriminate.

it gives no power to congress to create a dept, of allot money for such.......your link fails.
 
ernst barkmann said:
please to me, how this justifies the federal government creating a department of education.

your post pertains to discrimination law, that state governments, with its schools cannot discriminate.

it gives no power to congress to create a dept, of allot money for such.......your link fails.
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Again, as part of assuring this equality, it takes more than words. It's all part of adhering to the amendment. It is explained in detail, if you read.

http://www.lwv.org/content/role-federal-government-public-education -historical-perspectives
 
Redress said:
And you are still evading that your source turned out to be a pack of lies and distortions.
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13th amendment

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Two essential elements of involuntary servitude are involuntariness, which is compulsion to act against one's will, and servitude, which is some form of labor for another.
 
ernst barkmann said:
13th amendment

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Two essential elements of involuntary servitude are involuntariness, which is compulsion to act against one's will, and servitude, which is some form of labor for another.
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OK, let me take this very slow: you used a source for your claims. I proved that your source was lies and distortions. That has nothing to do with the 13th amendment. SO are you going to admit that your source was not valid, or are you going to try and defend the claims your source made?

Oh, and speaking of the 13th amendment, didn't you claim the 13th amendment was this:

If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive, or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them.
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Why yes you did: http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-constitution/166003-original-13th-amendment.html
 
Boo Radley said:
Again, as part of assuring this equality, it takes more than words. It's all part of adhering to the amendment. It is explained in detail, if you read.
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really? so if government wanted to create equally, of any sort they are opened ended to create anything.........no.

as i stated before from Madison....that education of children by the federal government is not a delegated power........
 
ernst barkmann said:
really? so if government wanted to create equally, of any sort they are opened ended to create anything.........no.

as i stated before from Madison....that education of children by the federal government is not a delegated power........
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Anything? No. But again, there was a process and it was followed within the framework of the amendment.

Annotation 25 - Fourteenth Amendment - FindLaw

History matters.

http://www.yourchildmychild.com/SpecialEducationHistory.htm
 
Redress said:
OK, let me take this very slow: you used a source for your claims. I proved that your source was lies and distortions. That has nothing to do with the 13th amendment. SO are you going to admit that your source was not valid, or are you going to try and defend the claims your source made?
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if a person is forced unwillingly to do something, but has committed no crime or something which could cause destruction to person or property, by what authority under the constitution does anyone have to make him do it?

Redress said:
Oh, and speaking of the 13th amendment, didn't you claim the 13th amendment was this:

Why yes you did: http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-constitution/166003-original-13th-amendment.html
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yes, and your point is?
 
ernst barkmann said:
if a person is forced unwillingly to do something, but has committed no crime or something which could cause destruction to person or property, by what authority under the constitution does anyone have to make him do it?
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Which still has nothing to do with your dishonest source.

yes, and your point is?
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Just showing people what else you believe in.
 
Boo Radley said:
Anything? No. But again, there was a process and it was followed within the framework of the amendment.

Annotation 25 - Fourteenth Amendment - FindLaw

History matters.
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equal means "equal under the law".......it gives no power to congress to create infrastructures, and allot money.

means every citizen is to be treated equally.......it gives congress no power.... has it been changed under the constitution to do that, does you amendment mention education no......education is never mentioed at all.

this is pure fantasy.
 
Redress said:
Which still has nothing to do with your dishonest source.
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question can people be made to do things against their will, if they have none nothing wrong????


Redress said:
Just showing people what else you believe in.
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according to records ..federal ,state, and private the original 13th was published for over 65 years
 
“If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress… Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America.”-- James Madison
 
ernst barkmann said:
equal means "equal under the law".......it gives no power to congress to create infrastructures, and allot money.

means every citizen is to be treated equally.......it gives congress no power.... has it been changed under the constitution to do that, does you amendment mention education no......education is never mentioed at all.

this is pure fantasy.
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Yes, and to assure that, it led to institutions. The courts ruled this the case and that it was not unconstitutional. See, it's seeing how everything connects.
 
Boo Radley said:
Yes, and to assure that, it led to institutions. The courts ruled this the case and that it was not unconstitutional. See, it's seeing how everything connects.
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no, something you keep forgetting, in order for congress to have a power is must be delegated to them by the constitution.

there is no delegated power in such constitution to education

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people



again it has to be a delegated power...not imaginary ones.
 
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