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Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

Which is more crucial


  • Total voters
    40
  • Poll closed .
Because of the high suicide rate for LGBT teens there has been a lot of focus on them. This does not mean that other groups aren't also discriminated against and harassed by fellow students.

I'm all in favor of zero tolerance towards any form of harassment.
 
Why do you start another topic? You really must be obsessed with this.

What I supprt I have indicated reeatedly and clearly in this thread: That schools should teach cildren reading, writing, mathematics, science, history, geography, etc. - i.e. the skills they need - and that the teaching of morality is something that should be left to parents, family, friends, etc.

The obvious answer would be that when children bring their "morality" to school in such a way that they persecute other children then the school has no other choice but to try to protect these children from the "morality" misguided parents have taught their children. To be TRULY neutral, the school needs to treat the issue of sexual orientation as neutral, normal and not the sort of thing that should not lead to being hurt by others.
 
"Good"? Not any more so than any other relationship between consenting adults. "Nothing wrong with them"? Yes, there is nothing wrong with them. Schools should and usually do teach tolerance and respect for others regardless of their beliefs.

Why do they need to teach about anything in that area beyond a mere defintion? Once you start adding value judgements about good, bad, okay, allowable.....you're going into belief systems. People complain about religion in schools, yet at the same time want to teach "it's okay to be gay", are guilty of the same thing. All they've done is take the word God out of it, and taught a belief system. You can't have it both ways. So either you teach religion and homosexuallity is good/okay, or you say nothing at all.
 
Because of the high suicide rate for LGBT teens there has been a lot of focus on them. This does not mean that other groups aren't also discriminated against and harassed by fellow students.

If they are committing suicide, then I would have to say that someone did a very poor job when selecting the word "Gay" to be used for homosexuality.
 
The obvious answer would be that when children bring their "morality" to school in such a way that they persecute other children then the school has no other choice but to try to protect these children from the "morality" misguided parents have taught their children. To be TRULY neutral, the school needs to treat the issue of sexual orientation as neutral, normal and not the sort of thing that should not lead to being hurt by others.

Yes, so the school should not take any position on what forms of sexuality are "good" or "bas". It should restricts itself to teaching the skills the children need and regulating their behavior whil they are at school. That would be a huge success by today's standards.
 
It doesn't have to specify "gays." There are also children with disabilities who are picked on, children of different ethnic groups who are picked on, nerds, etc. Any type of abuse, verbal or otherwise, shouldn't be tolerated against any student regardless of the reason.

Dare I point out that you just specified children with disabilities, ethnic children and nerds?

Were you somehow under the impression that sexual orientation is the ONLY issue schools are dealing with?
 
Exactly, that is what the student-parent handbooks specifically cover. I also acknowledged that the first day of school can be spent going over rules. There should be nothing more than that. After that, if a child misbehaves, they are punished for it. Simple.
My daughter never had one of those student-parent handbooks where the parent had to sign and return or any other such nonsense. I expected the school to do just what businesses do, educate their people so they know what is and is not acceptable behavior. At work in the mid-90's we all had a classes on tolerance and that class was repeated every so often for new employees. That's what I expect children to learn at school, too.
 
Dare I point out that you just specified children with disabilities, ethnic children and nerds?

Were you somehow under the impression that sexual orientation is the ONLY issue schools are dealing with?

Obviously my post went right over your head.
 
Telling kids they have to treat gays like every one else is not a special status.

But they are not like "everyone" else. Pretty much no one is ever "like everyone else". We are individuals, each and every one of us. Funny how so many liberals want to "protect" homosexuals, but yet they fully support intolerance of others who don't accept their world view.
 
My daughter never had one of those student-parent handbooks where the parent had to sign and return or any other such nonsense. I expected the school to do just what businesses do, educate their people so they know what is and is not acceptable behavior. At work in the mid-90's we all had a classes on tolerance and that class was repeated every so often for new employees. That's what I expect children to learn at school, too.

Well, my son did, every year I have to sign and return a paper stating that he and I have gone over and agree to the rules and regulations and also the code of discipline that the school employs. Those things are reinforced with punishment for bad behavior.
 
Are you advocating that pupils should be made to behave civilly in school? I'm all for it. That has nothing to do with teaching them about what forms of sexuality are "right" or "wrong".
I've never used the words "right" or "wrong" in that sense. You're trying to make a case where there is none. All I've talked about is tolerance.
 
Why do they need to teach about anything in that area beyond a mere defintion? Once you start adding value judgements about good, bad, okay, allowable.....you're going into belief systems. People complain about religion in schools, yet at the same time want to teach "it's okay to be gay", are guilty of the same thing. All they've done is take the word God out of it, and taught a belief system. You can't have it both ways. So either you teach religion and homosexuallity is good/okay, or you say nothing at all.
I didn't add value judgements, someone else did that. What do you think "good" means? What do you think "wrong" means. I quoted those words, they didn't originate with me - and if you'll look at my responses I did not advocate teaching right or wring, I advocated tolerance. Are you also lacking in the vocabulary to understand what that idea means as others in this thread seem to be lacking?
 
I've never used the words "right" or "wrong" in that sense. You're trying to make a case where there is none. All I've talked about is tolerance.

It's part of the same Owrellian package of rhetorec where the rejection of intolerance is intolerant, trying to limit other people's freedom is a sign of a freedom fighter and where teaching in a neutral fashion is biased.

People who adopt the attitude that homosexuality is sinful equate anything that does not reinforce the intolerance with promoting homosexuality.
 
It's part of the same Owrellian package of rhetorec where the rejection of intolerance is intolerant, trying to limit other people's freedom is a sign of a freedom fighter and where teaching in a neutral fashion is biased.

People who adopt the attitude that homosexuality is sinful equate anything that does not reinforce the intolerance with promoting homosexuality.
It certainly seems that way in this thread. I can't believe there are so many people who have no clue what tolerance means. :(
 
It doesn't have to specify "gays." There are also children with disabilities who are picked on, children of different ethnic groups who are picked on, nerds, etc. Any type of abuse, verbal or otherwise, shouldn't be tolerated against any student regardless of the reason.

Yes, especially nerds.
 
It certainly seems that way in this thread. I can't believe there are so many people who have no clue what tolerance means. :(

The notion that tolerance involves tolerating that which does not cause harm seems lost on many people. When they try to use the term to indicate actions intended to prevent harm, they pervert the meaning beyond recognition.
 
But they are not like "everyone" else. Pretty much no one is ever "like everyone else". We are individuals, each and every one of us. Funny how so many liberals want to "protect" homosexuals, but yet they fully support intolerance of others who don't accept their world view.

Actually they are just like every one else, except for one thing that has no effect on any one not in a relationship with them.

I want people judged on their actions, not who or what they are, and that only extends to how people act towards others in certain situations. You are free to hate on gays all you want. I cannot stop you from exercising that right, but we can stop you from using that hate to infringe on the rights of gays. Students do not have a right to bully for example, but they do have a right in school to not be bullied.
 
so government can take my money, and teach my religion sucks?

No...

And since I have answered your question, how about answering the one I keep asking that you run from.
 
If you teach your child that evolution is wrong based on your religion, should schools not teach evolution?
If schools understand that evolution cannot explain away God, and they present the subject in this light, then I have no problem with my kid sitting in their classrooms.
 
Why do they need to teach about anything in that area beyond a mere defintion? Once you start adding value judgements about good, bad, okay, allowable.....you're going into belief systems. People complain about religion in schools, yet at the same time want to teach "it's okay to be gay", are guilty of the same thing. All they've done is take the word God out of it, and taught a belief system. You can't have it both ways. So either you teach religion and homosexuallity is good/okay, or you say nothing at all.

Not all religious people find homosexuality as offensive as some people on this thread seem to feel.

binary thinking seldom provides good answers. (please note the word 'seldom' in the sentence. it is there to indicate that sometimes, but infrequently, binary thinking may provide a good answer)
 
But they are not like "everyone" else. Pretty much no one is ever "like everyone else". We are individuals, each and every one of us. Funny how so many liberals want to "protect" homosexuals, but yet they fully support intolerance of others who don't accept their world view.


Yep, intolerant bullies and abusers should not be tolerated
 
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