View Poll Results: Which is more crucial

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  • Freedom of Religion

    26 56.52%
  • Mandate to Evolve

    10 21.74%
  • Both are equally crucial

    10 21.74%
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Thread: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

  1. #421
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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I can see you have read the link close enough. But maybe you'll do better with the next links:

    Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution granted Congress the power to lay and collect taxes to provide for the general welfare of the United States. It is under this “general welfare” clause that the federal government has assumed the power to initiate educational activity in its own right and to participate jointly with states, agencies and individuals in educational activities.

    The History Of Federal Government In Public Education: Where Have We Been And How Did We Get Here? | League of Women Voters

    The U.S. Constitution and Education.
    Levin, Betsy
    1986-Apr
    Although education is primarily a state function, its importance to our society makes it fertile ground for litigation. The Constitution--by authorizing the Congress to enact legislation--constrains and prescribes what happens in schools. Legislative histories, especially since the early 1960s, are outlined here. The major topics include: constitutional limits on the inculcation of religious, political, and moral values; freedom of expression for teachers and students in the school environment; the free exercise of religion; the requirements of fair procedures in the school environment; and the obligation to provide equal educational opportunity. (BZ)

    ERIC - Education Resources Information Center
    a minute ago you wanted to use the 14th...now its back to article 1 section 8 again.

    the general welfare is the 18 powers of congress.

    “With respect to the two words ‘general welfare,’ I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.” – James Madison in letter to James Robertson

    “[Congressional jurisdiction of power] is limited to certain enumerated objects, which concern all the members of the republic, but which are not to be attained by the separate provisions of any.” – James Madison, Federalist 14

    “The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined . . . to be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce.” – James Madison, Federalist 45

    If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions.” – James Madison, 1792

    “The Constitution allows only the means which are ‘necessary,’ not those which are merely ‘convenient,’ for effecting the enumerated powers. If such a latitude of construction be allowed to this phrase as to give any non-enumerated power, it will go to every one, for there is not one which ingenuity may not torture into a convenience in some instance or other, to some one of so long a list of enumerated powers. It would swallow up all the delegated powers, and reduce the whole to one power, as before observed” – Thomas Jefferson, 1791

    “Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.” – Thomas Jefferson, 1798

    There you have it. James Madison, the Constitution’s author and Thomas Jefferson the author of the Declaration of Independence, specifically say that Congressional powers are to be limited and defined – unlike most modern interpretations!

    Admittedly, Jefferson and Madison were not our only Founders. These two were strict constitutionalists who feared the potential strength of any government. So let’s look at another Founder’s opinion—Alexander Hamilton who historically saw it in a somewhat looser vain.

    “This specification of particulars [the 18 enumerated powers of Article I, Section 8] evidently excludes all pretension to a general legislative authority, because an affirmative grant of special powers would be absurd as well as useless if a general authority was intended.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist 83

    Hamilton uncategorically states that all congressional powers are enumerated and that the very existence of these enumerations alone makes any belief that Congress has full and general legislative power to act as it desires nonsensical. If such broad congressional power had been the original intent, the constitutionally specified powers would have been worthless. In other words, why even enumerate any powers at all if the General Welfare clause could trump them?

    “No legislative act … contrary to the Constitution can be valid. To deny this would be to affirm that the deputy is greater than his principal; that the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of powers may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid.” – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist 78

    In short, Hamilton tells us that since the powers of Congress are enumerated and limit Congress to those powers, any assumed authority outside those specified that don’t have a direct relation to those explicit powers must be contrary to the Constitution and therefore — unconstitutional.

  2. #422
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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I know that things people claimed to have happen thousands of years ago without proper proof or documentation cannot be shown beyond the fiction they represent. Do you have a measurement, or do you have no proof. That's it.
    Listen again

    THERE IS NO MEASUREMENTS THERE IS NO MEASUREMENTS THERE IS NO MEASUREMENTS THERE IS NO MEASUREMENTS THERE IS NO MEASUREMENTS
    For someone who has a low tolerance for stupid, you engage in it a lot.

    Maybe if I use big capital letters you will quit asking for stupid things such as measurements for God.
    FAITH REQUIRES NO MEASUREMENTS.

  3. #423
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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    Listen again

    THERE IS NO MEASUREMENTS THERE IS NO MEASUREMENTS THERE IS NO MEASUREMENTS THERE IS NO MEASUREMENTS THERE IS NO MEASUREMENTS
    For someone who has a low tolerance for stupid, you engage in it a lot.

    Maybe if I use big capital letters you will quit asking for stupid things such as measurements for God.
    FAITH REQUIRES NO MEASUREMENTS.
    Well someone needs their meds. I think you've stumbled upon my point finally. There is no measurement to faith, and there is no knowledge of it either because there can be no measurement. There is only wishful thinking. Thanks for finally catching on, even if you had to do so in a manner befitting a 16 year old spoiled girl who didn't get the color BMW she wanted for her sweet 16.

    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I know that things people claimed to have happen thousands of years ago without proper proof or documentation cannot be shown beyond the fiction they represent. Do you have a measurement, or do you have no proof. That's it.
    How do you know those claims are fiction?

  5. #425
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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    How do you know those claims are fiction?
    They cannot be proven, ergo I can only assume them to be fiction till such point that you can prove them. But the point is you said proof, not I, and it is that proof I am looking for you to demonstrate.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by clax1911 View Post
    just as long as they dint use the word normal?, same thing.
    So what that teachings conflict, if you don't have the ability to tell your kids that the school is wrong put them in private school.
    Schools aren't undermining anything. What activity are you talking about? The schools are operated by the government.

    No government can't mandate you attend public school. I had to pay taxes for the 35 years i had no children in school. Everybody pays taxes.

    schools attendance is mandated...look it up......United States about 6-17 old Varies by state. Beginning age varies 5-8, ending age varies 15-18.[17] Some states allow early leave with parental approval.,<-----mandatory schooling

    its wrong for the school to use public money to teach homosexuality is wrong.

    Its wrong for the school to use public money to teach homosexuality is right.

    Government derive their powers from constitutions, does a constitution give them authority to be involved in social aspects of people lives ..like sex......no.

    Sex is not in constitutions.

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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    They cannot be proven,
    What can't be proven?

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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    What can't be proven?
    Gods, less you have measurement showing otherwise. Do you? Proof is measurement, proof can be demonstrated. It's not personal interpretation of random events or wishful thinking, proof has measurement. And you said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    If I tell you God exists, then you ask for proof. If I tell you how you can get proof, you say ________?
    So what I want to know is the measurement through which I can obtain the proof you talk of. What is the physical constant and how may I measure it?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    For sometime who claims to be intelligent you sure do jump to stupid conclusions an awful lot. I read doodle's nonsense, dismissed it for being nonsense and explained the stupidity in your question.

    Two occasions I have made a single post to you and you became extremely rude.
    Are you really so petty?... Wait dint answer that, I heard all your nonsense and posturing before, when it comes to religion I am your superior.
    Does anyone else here see the hypocrisy?

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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    Does anyone else here see the hypocrisy?
    There's no hypocrisy, he's just not very good at reasoning things through is all. Heart is in the right place, but the mind can't keep up.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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