View Poll Results: Which is more crucial

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  • Freedom of Religion

    26 56.52%
  • Mandate to Evolve

    10 21.74%
  • Both are equally crucial

    10 21.74%
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Thread: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

  1. #391
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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It doesn't have to be. There are sets and subsets of assigned powers. More than one libertarian has misread the Constitution. It helps to consult those who know how it works. Even a mechanic needs to learn from those who already are mechanics. You can't make judgements with that learning. So, that's why we take our cars to mechanics.
    wrong the federal government was given 18 powers only.

    anything not listed in article 1 section 8 is a state power.

    "all powers not delegated to the federal government by the constitution shall remain the power of the states and the people--- 10th amendment

    "If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions." --James Madison

    "If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress. ... Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America." --James Madison

  2. #392
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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    wrong the federal government was given 18 powers only.

    anything not listed in article 1 section 8 is a state power.

    "all powers not delegated to the federal government by the constitution shall remain the power of the states and the people--- 10th amendment

    "If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions." --James Madison

    "If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress. ... Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America." --James Madison
    Again this is not your area of expertise. Your just mindlessly repeating the same rant.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  3. #393
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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again this is not your area of expertise. Your just mindlessly repeating the same rant.

    rant?......i quoted the constitution and Madison, are you saying both are a rant?

    you need to stop justifying governments unconstitutional actions.

  4. #394
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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    rant?......i quoted the constitution and Madison, are you saying both are a rant?

    you need to stop justifying governments unconstitutional actions.
    Again, not a scholar. Allow me to help you:

    However, the Constitution still has an effect upon public education in the United States. The Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, which was ratified in 1868, contains both the due process and equal protection clauses, which concern state action in these two areas. The effect of the due process clause is described in Basic Due Process for Pennsylvania Students and Basic Due Process for Pennsylvania Educators. The equal protection clause is involved in issues of race, ethnicity, national origin or sex when there is a question of discrimination. The United States Supreme Court has also used the Fourteenth Amendment to apply other amendments to action by the fifty states. The most important amendments concerning public education, which are applied to state action under the umbrella of the Fourteenth Amendment, are: (1) the First Amendment in terms of the religion clauses, speech and assembly; (2) the Fourth Amendment in terms of search and seizure; and, (3) the Eighth Amendment in terms of cruel and unusual punishment. A student or teacher who feels that one of these rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution has been infringed may bring an action in a federal court.

    (Snip)

    Supreme Court Decisions Affecting Public Education

    Supreme Court decisions have many effects upon public schools. The Court decides if a statute is constitutional. In Board of Education of Westside Community School District v. Mergens, 496 U.S. 226 (1990), the Court ruled that the EAA did not violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. The court sometimes declares that a law passed by the Congress that affects public schools is unconstitutional. This was the case in U.S. v. Lopez, 514 U.S. 549 (1995), when The Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 was declared unconstitutional. Usually when the Court decides an issue, that decision will serve as a precedent for many years, but this is not always the case. In Minersville School District v. Gobitis, 310 U.S. 586 (1940), the Court held that students who held religious objections could be compelled by a Pennsylvania statute to recite the pledge of allegiance, but three years later in West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943), the Court held that such a compulsion violated the First Amendment. Some of the major cases decided by the Court that affect public education are discussed below.

    The Role of the Federal Government in Public Education in the United States


    You should read all of so as to not cherry pick and couple of lines and miss the anger picture.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #395
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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, not a scholar. Allow me to help you:

    However, the Constitution still has an effect upon public education in the United States. The Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution, which was ratified in 1868, contains both the due process and equal protection clauses, which concern state action in these two areas. The effect of the due process clause is described in Basic Due Process for Pennsylvania Students and Basic Due Process for Pennsylvania Educators. The equal protection clause is involved in issues of race, ethnicity, national origin or sex when there is a question of discrimination. The United States Supreme Court has also used the Fourteenth Amendment to apply other amendments to action by the fifty states. The most important amendments concerning public education, which are applied to state action under the umbrella of the Fourteenth Amendment, are: (1) the First Amendment in terms of the religion clauses, speech and assembly; (2) the Fourth Amendment in terms of search and seizure; and, (3) the Eighth Amendment in terms of cruel and unusual punishment. A student or teacher who feels that one of these rights guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution has been infringed may bring an action in a federal court.

    (Snip)

    Supreme Court Decisions Affecting Public Education

    Supreme Court decisions have many effects upon public schools. The Court decides if a statute is constitutional. In Board of Education of Westside Community School District v. Mergens, 496 U.S. 226 (1990), the Court ruled that the EAA did not violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. The court sometimes declares that a law passed by the Congress that affects public schools is unconstitutional. This was the case in U.S. v. Lopez, 514 U.S. 549 (1995), when The Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 was declared unconstitutional. Usually when the Court decides an issue, that decision will serve as a precedent for many years, but this is not always the case. In Minersville School District v. Gobitis, 310 U.S. 586 (1940), the Court held that students who held religious objections could be compelled by a Pennsylvania statute to recite the pledge of allegiance, but three years later in West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943), the Court held that such a compulsion violated the First Amendment. Some of the major cases decided by the Court that affect public education are discussed below.

    The Role of the Federal Government in Public Education in the United States


    You should read all of so as to not cherry pick and couple of lines and miss the anger picture.
    the 14th amendment to our constitution was written for the slave population only as confirmed by the the USSC in 1873.

    only decades later has it pertained to the general population.

    do you see the words education in the constitution at all?...........no!

    again for you, "all powers not delegated to the federal government by the constitution shall remain the power of the states, and the people"--10th amendment

    do you see education as a "delegated power" mentioned by the wording ......no!

    14th amendment--

    The Constitution: Amendments 11-27

    AMENDMENT XIV

    Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

    Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.


    Section 1.
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Section 2.
    Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,* and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

    Section 3.
    No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

    Section 4.
    The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

    Section 5.
    The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.


    the 14th amendment does says nothing of education, and you pretend it does.

    yet the 10th amendment is clear, ----------->its not a delegated power.
    Last edited by Master PO; 08-02-13 at 07:53 PM.

  6. #396
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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    the 14th amendment to our constitution was written for the slave population only as confirmed by the the USSC in 1873.

    only decades later has it pertained to the general population.

    do you see the words education in the constitution at all?...........no!

    again for you, "all powers not delegated to the federal government by the constitution shall remain the power of the states, and the people"--10th amendment

    do you see education as a "delegated power" mentioned by the wording ......no!

    14th amendment--

    The Constitution: Amendments 11-27

    AMENDMENT XIV

    Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.

    Note: Article I, section 2, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of the 14th amendment.


    Section 1.
    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    Section 2.
    Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age,* and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.

    Section 3.
    No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

    Section 4.
    The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

    Section 5.
    The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.


    the 14th amendment does says nothing of education, and you pretend it does.

    yet the 10th amendment is clear, ----------->its not a delegated power.
    You're still just ranting. The trouble with not being a scholar is that you only have a superficial understanding. I gave you good information. You should read it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  7. #397
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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i have stated i dont care if gays marry ....this is what i dont like...the public school part...i am always against government using force on people who have done nothing.

    How same-sex "marriage" affects Massachusetts
    I am against government using force also.

    But your link was about school curriculum. Teaching children that gay people are normal is not force. home school your kids take them to private school, move to a different school district. There are three ways around it, now of your kid was mandatedto learn this regardless of your choice of school that would be force.

    You choose to put your kids in public school, nothing at all regarding school curriculum is force. If you feel that strongly about it home school.

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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    If I tell you God exists, then you ask for proof. If I tell you how you can get proof, you say ________?
    But you don't tell how anyone can measure the system to obtain proof. I got a voltmeter, some probes, and an oscilloscope. What can I measure that proves gods?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    No, I'm saying that I've gotten responses. And since I know I'm not out of my mind, then the disconnect must be on the other end. Either their heart wasn't in it, or they didn't even try.
    Your knowledge base is corrupt. Defrag and try again.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But you don't tell how anyone can measure the system to obtain proof. I got a voltmeter, some probes, and an oscilloscope. What can I measure that proves gods?
    You can't prove God exists, that is why religions require faith. No instrument, no meter, no object is capable.

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    Re: Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

    Quote Originally Posted by CLAX1911 View Post
    You can't prove God exists, that is why religions require faith. No instrument, no meter, no object is capable.
    Do people even read quoted texts to understand context anymore?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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