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Freedom of Religion vs the Mandate to Evolve [W 65]

Which is more crucial

  • Total voters
    40
  • Poll closed .
Neomalthusian said:
Do explain. How does literature work?
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The story might be fiction the but the purpose and meaning behind them are not. Well unless they are written by complete idiots or read by complete idiots ex. the Twilight series for both. Too bad most people are stupid. When you do not read literature properly it is just a made up fairy tale but if you understand the meaning it is not. I like the example of A Clockwork Orange some people see it as a highly disturbing book that needs to be banned and it is if you are ****en stupid but if you understand it's commentary on society it is not fiction but rather truth.
 
Neomalthusian said:
You want them to learn without thinking? Tall order.



So you're opposed to literature then.



I think what's idiotic is to proclaim that children shall learn scientific principles exclusively (without thinking). As though all fiction should be banned by the state.

There's a reason science and math are not the only subjects in school. Besides, we all know that even science and stats can be misconstrued. Kids need to be able to think critically, not just have scientific fact downloaded to their brains (as though that's even possible).
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Science class is not the place for fairy tales if you cannot understand that concept you need to go back to school yourself.
 
0bserver92 said:
The story might be fiction the but the purpose and meaning behind them are not. Well unless they are written by complete idiots or read by complete idiots ex. the Twilight series for both. Too bad most people are stupid. When you do not read literature properly it is just a made up fairy tale but if you understand the meaning it is not. I like the example of A Clockwork Orange some people see it as a highly disturbing book that needs to be banned and it is if you are ****en stupid but if you understand it's commentary on society it is not fiction but rather truth.
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Are you alluding to the fact that literature is subjective?
 
0bserver92 said:
The story might be fiction the but the purpose and meaning behind them are not. Well unless they are written by complete idiots or read by complete idiots ex. the Twilight series for both. Too bad most people are stupid. When you do not read literature properly it is just a made up fairy tale but if you understand the meaning it is not. I like the example of A Clockwork Orange some people see it as a highly disturbing book that needs to be banned and it is if you are ****en stupid but if you understand it's commentary on society it is not fiction but rather truth.
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There's nothing about that I don't understand.

iguanaman said:
Science class is not the place for fairy tales if you cannot understand that concept you need to go back to school yourself.
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If your comments about kids only learning science and nothing fictional was limited to science classrooms, you should have clarified. Here's how that would have looked: "I was talking specifically about science class, not speaking generally."
 
iguanaman said:
Science class is not the place for fairy tales if you cannot understand that concept you need to go back to school yourself.
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And you are the ultimate authority on what is and is not a fairy tale?

You may believe the Bible to be a fairy tale, but it does in fact contain a lot of actual history. More truth in that book than what atheist choose to call "fiction", get over it.
 
lolabird said:
Are you alluding to the fact that literature is subjective?
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My point here is you have to teach and make kids think for themselves but they can't unless you give them the facts to draw their own conclusions sadly most children do not learn that.
 
0bserver92 said:
My point here is you have to teach and make kids think for themselves but they can't unless you give them the facts to draw their own conclusions sadly most children do not learn that.
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Admittedly, I'm confused with your statement.
If a teacher assigns a book, let's say To Kill A Mockingbird, and the pupils read the book, do you think most would draw their own conclusion?
Should the teacher interject his/her own knowledge about the subject?
 
DVSentinel said:
And you are the ultimate authority on what is and is not a fairy tale?

You may believe the Bible to be a fairy tale, but it does in fact contain a lot of actual history. More truth in that book than what atheist choose to call "fiction", get over it.
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Does that make historical fiction novels true too?
 
lolabird said:
Admittedly, I'm confused with your statement.
If a teacher assigns a book, let's say To Kill A Mockingbird, and the pupils read the book, do you think most would draw their own conclusion?
Should the teacher interject his/her own knowledge about the subject?
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The teacher should guide the students along and hopefully they learn how to draw their own conclusions sadly most students only take a book at it's face value. The same people who take a book only at face value are the same people who follow the bible literally and don't question what it means this includes creationists.
 
DVSentinel said:
And you are the ultimate authority on what is and is not a fairy tale?

You may believe the Bible to be a fairy tale, but it does in fact contain a lot of actual history. More truth in that book than what atheist choose to call "fiction", get over it.
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Science class is not the place for ancient history either. Bibles don't belong in public school...EVER. Or Korans for that matter unless the class is Religion and then we need to teach ALL religions equally.
 
0bserver92 said:
The teacher should guide the students along and hopefully they learn how to draw their own conclusions sadly most students only take a book at it's face value. The same people who take a book only at face value are the same people who follow the bible literally and don't question what it means this includes creationists.
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It's a fact that not all students are interested in learning; therefore, some become lazy and feckless citizens.
 
lolabird said:
Admittedly, I'm confused with your statement.
If a teacher assigns a book, let's say To Kill A Mockingbird, and the pupils read the book, do you think most would draw their own conclusion?
Should the teacher interject his/her own knowledge about the subject?
Click to expand...

There is a difference in reading a work of fiction and studying science. You know this but since you have nothing else......
 
DVSentinel said:
And you are the ultimate authority on what is and is not a fairy tale?

You may believe the Bible to be a fairy tale, but it does in fact contain a lot of actual history. More truth in that book than what atheist choose to call "fiction", get over it.
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There is at least as much that science and archaeology show to not be literally true as what is known to be true. For example we know that the Israelites where not where the old testament claims on multiple occasions.
 
evolution does not need a mandate, evolution is eternal and unstoppable. Evolution is everywhere and nowhere. Most religions/religious movements are evolving as are there followers.

If someone wants to be in a religion, that is their free choice (even though I cannot see the use or the need for it, but that is just me), but that does not change the fact of evolution (not just talking about Darwin but in general).
 
iguanaman said:
Science class is not the place for ancient history either. Bibles don't belong in public school...EVER. Or Korans for that matter unless the class is Religion and then we need to teach ALL religions equally.
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If religion is the language of transcendence, would you give teachers permission to mention it?
 
Redress said:
There is a difference between teaching that something exists and teaching that something is wrong.
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becuase you want them to teach something you believe is right.

and the question amounts to this:

why is it i IF i wanted to teach that homosexuality is wrong.....your against it....

but if you want to teach homosexuality is right, your for it.

why is it you get to make the decisions of what is taught.

my point of view [libertarian] is neither one should not be taught at all.

this goes back to the same old problems of the world ,of people wanting to force other people to do things.
 
iguanaman said:
Science class is not the place for ancient history either. Bibles don't belong in public school...EVER. Or Korans for that matter unless the class is Religion and then we need to teach ALL religions equally.
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Too narrow. Both can provide context in History and Current Events classes. I had to read some of both in a literature class in high school.
 
ernst barkmann said:
becuase you want them to teach something you believe is right.

and the question amounts to this:

why is it i IF i wanted to teach that homosexuality is wrong.....your against it....

but if you want to teach homosexuality is right, your for it.

why is it you get to make the decisions of what is taught.

my point of view is either one should not be taught at all.

this goes back to the same old problems of the world ,of people wanting to force other people to do things.
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You are making an incorrect assumption here. It is where you give me a position I did not take. Can you figure out where?
 
iguanaman said:
Science class is not the place for ancient history either. Bibles don't belong in public school...EVER. Or Korans for that matter unless the class is Religion and then we need to teach ALL religions equally.
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and even though i am religious i agree with you.

what i dont like is when people put forth political and social agenda in our schools....schools are not for that reason.
 
iguanaman said:
There is a difference in reading a work of fiction and studying science. You know this but since you have nothing else......
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OMG! Tell me you're kidding.
 
ernst barkmann said:
and even though i am religious i agree with you.

what i dont like is when people put forth political and social agenda in our schools....schools are not for that reason.
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Then why do students run for class president?
 
ernst barkmann said:
and even though i am religious i agree with you.

what i dont like is when people put forth political and social agenda in our schools....schools are not for that reason.
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Oddly, one of my favorite teachers was a very loudly conservative republican government teacher. He taught me to question and stand up for what I believe in.
 
Redress said:
You are making an incorrect assumption here. It is where you give me a position I did not take. Can you figure out where?
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i know what you believe.

your from the left, and i have argued with many many people of the left over this position, ...and that position is always the same .

AGENT J [who loves this kind of discussion ]........ has stated to me, "people will be forced to accept homosexuality "

it is fact that wherever homosexual relationships has been had legal by the state, the subject is brought into the public schools of those states next, and force applied to people over it...and people wonder why other people are opposed to gay marriage.

if government would get out of the business of trying to force things on the people, you would see opposition to gay marriage less than it is now.
 
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