View Poll Results: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

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  • Yes

    24 52.17%
  • No

    20 43.48%
  • Maybe

    0 0%
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    2 4.35%
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Thread: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

  1. #71
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by polisciguy View Post
    Would it be better to simply keep marriages, regardless of gender or number of spouses, purely a religious or otherwise private ceremony? Why or why not?
    I think there is still a state interest to support the stability that comes with marriage. It's harder to keep today than in the past, but it's a windmill worth tilting. They just have to be fair and equal with the recognition.

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  2. #72
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    I'm talking about the ideal that should be, not what currently is. Why would you need a marriage license to deal with property claims, for example? It would be incredibly easy to set that framework up in a private contract. Property claims, parental rights, medical visitation, etc. don't require marriage licenses to exist...that's just how it works now.
    Not true, there are whole slew of laws that determine this:

    Property claims are covered by inheritance laws if a person does not ensure a valid will exists. These vary from state to state.

    Medical visitation: "If an incapacitated patient has not completely documented his or her wishes, hospitals follow state laws about who can make health care decisions for the patient. Many states rank potential decision makers and mandate that hospitals follow this priority order. In most states, a domestic partner or close friend is last on the list of potential proxies. In some states, domestic partners and close friends are not on the list at all." Hospital Rights (This includes who gets to visit.)

    Parental rights: In most states blood trumps marriage, so that step-children can be claimed by either the natural surviving parent or other close relative.

    Things are not as always as clear as you seem to think.
    If I stop responding it doesn't mean I've conceded the point or agree with you. It only means I've made my point and I don't mind you having the last word. Please wait a few minutes before "quoting" me. I often correct errors for a minute or two after I post before the final product is ready.

  3. #73
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    Not true, there are whole slew of laws that determine this:

    Property claims are covered by inheritance laws if a person does not ensure a valid will exists. These vary from state to state.

    Medical visitation: "If an incapacitated patient has not completely documented his or her wishes, hospitals follow state laws about who can make health care decisions for the patient. Many states rank potential decision makers and mandate that hospitals follow this priority order. In most states, a domestic partner or close friend is last on the list of potential proxies. In some states, domestic partners and close friends are not on the list at all." Hospital Rights (This includes who gets to visit.)

    Parental rights: In most states blood trumps marriage, so that step-children can be claimed by either the natural surviving parent or other close relative.

    Things are not as always as clear as you seem to think.
    Again, you are just describing the way it is now, as if that refutes the possibility of something else. A system of no marriage licenses would require a lot of radical changes.

    Property claims: If a valid will exists, your property claims argument is bunk. If not, all you would have to do is write in the marriage contract: "upon the death of either spouse, the surviving spouse is to inherit the full estate" or something of the like. The contract would then essentially act as a valid will.

    Medical visitation: Your argument only applies if there is no documentation of wishes, as your source points out. The marriage contract would include a documentation of wishes, so hospitals would follow that documentation. State laws that prohibit such wishes from being followed should be removed.

    Parental rights: Your argument here does not apply to marriages where both spouses are the natural parents of their children. That blood trumps marriage is irrelevant, because the surviving spouse is often the natural parent, and thus has both blood and marriage. Regardless, the marriage contract would specify that the couple has joint custody, and that in the event of death the surviving parent is to have custody, blood-related or not.

    I'm not sure how you thought any of those examples debunked the feasibility of a private marriage contract.
    Last edited by Lakryte; 07-30-13 at 04:37 PM.
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  4. #74
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by polisciguy View Post
    Would it be better to simply keep marriages, regardless of gender or number of spouses, purely a religious or otherwise private ceremony? Why or why not?
    As in many other areas, the state is far too involved in our lives. If it kept itself only to defense I would be much less vociferous in my opposition to it.

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    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

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