View Poll Results: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

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  • Yes

    24 52.17%
  • No

    20 43.48%
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Thread: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

  1. #61
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Okay, I'll rephrase my question: Why artificially limit the choices of adults that the law would classify competent to make their own decisions?
    Because they are making irrational, immature and unjustifiable decisions? Just because someone can make a particular decision doesn't mean it's the best decision to make, nor one that society as a whole ought to support.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #62
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Because they are making irrational, immature and unjustifiable decisions?
    In your opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Just because someone can make a particular decision doesn't mean it's the best decision to make, nor one that society as a whole ought to support.
    It isn't society's job to decide what is the best decision for a competent adult to make. It is that adult's job. Otherwise, what's the point of individual freedom?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  3. #63
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    In your opinion.
    Doesn't make it wrong or invalid.

    It isn't society's job to decide what is the best decision for a competent adult to make. It is that adult's job. Otherwise, what's the point of individual freedom?
    Sure it is. Society determines most things that are right or wrong, that's now morality works. According to you, child molestation or murder can't be considered wrong or actionable because it isn't society's job to determine that they're not fine.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  4. #64
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Doesn't make it wrong or invalid.
    No, but opinions are a piss-poor reason for legislation and regulations and policies that affect everyone, especially when there are so many differing opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Sure it is. Society determines most things that are right or wrong, that's now morality works. According to you, child molestation or murder can't be considered wrong or actionable because it isn't society's job to determine that they're not fine.
    Oh, yes, I was waiting for that. By all means, compare the regulation of marriage to the prohibition of child molestation. After all marriage involves 2 competent adults whereas child molestation involves one or more adults abusing or taking advantage one or more children, I definitely see the similarities there.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  5. #65
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Why should married couples with kids receive a tax benefit not offered to unmarried couples with kids, or couples with kids who have a contractually defined relationshp?
    They don't in most cases. In fact, I have no idea where you get the idea that they do in general.

    Tax Issues for Unmarried Couples | Nolo.com

    Plus, marriage shows that the couple is more likely to stay together than simply two people living together. Those who simply live together without getting married and are raising children are less likely to stay together throughout the child's/children's childhood than a married couple.

    Almost no couples with children who stay unmarried stay together, study claims - Telegraph

    Maybe it's psychological or maybe it is the legal/financial benefits of marriage along with the legal/financial hardships of divorce that keep these people together, but it is a fact.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #66
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    I have a huge issue with so many people trying to make things less efficient. The marriage contract is already established to protect people and recognize people as legal spouses, a legally recognized familial relationship, with just a simple 1-page, cheap document. This document works fairly well to protect most spouses in most situations, especially the important ones. And all for a pretty reasonable one-time fee. And what is being suggested is to replace this simple cheap relationship-length contract with multiple expensive, lengthy legal paperwork that does not recognize people as legal family members with just those current documents. Plus some of those contracts can only be written to cover a short time length, so they have to be renewed (at another cost) every so often. It is ridiculous.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #67
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    No, but opinions are a piss-poor reason for legislation and regulations and policies that affect everyone, especially when there are so many differing opinions.
    Virtually all legislation is based on opinion, people vote based on opinion, politicians legislate based on opinion. You are operating out of your opinions, yet you condemn others for doing the same?

    Oh, yes, I was waiting for that. By all means, compare the regulation of marriage to the prohibition of child molestation. After all marriage involves 2 competent adults whereas child molestation involves one or more adults abusing or taking advantage one or more children, I definitely see the similarities there.
    As expected, since you can't handle the concepts, you attack the specificites.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  8. #68
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    There is no such thing as a "private marriage contract" in most marriages. You presume that marriage simply awards all the benefits that the State recognizes. Try dealing with property claims, parental rights, medical visitation and determinations when in-laws challenge a spouse they dislike.
    I'm talking about the ideal that should be, not what currently is. Why would you need a marriage license to deal with property claims, for example? It would be incredibly easy to set that framework up in a private contract. Property claims, parental rights, medical visitation, etc. don't require marriage licenses to exist...that's just how it works now.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  9. #69
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    Yes. Couples in marriage are the foundation of society. Hence, the state should have a vested interest in being a part of that process. The process of marriage. Again, marriage has 2 parts:

    A) legal
    b) ceremonial.

    The legal part is the state part when you go and sign a piece of paper at the city hall or social office or what naught. There is nothing romantic or religious about it. It just informs the state that there is another group of people who are ready to be part of the building block of society. Gay or straight, as it is now in 13 states in the USA I think.
    The ceremonial part is the religious one. Also known as a wedding in Christianity, where you go at the church, say some vowes and put a ring on each others' finger. This is the romantic part also. The ceremonial part is also optional. All you really need is the legal part. The state part, to be married, by law.
    The vows are the most important part. Too bad people don't seem to take them seriously anymore.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    The vows are the most important part. Too bad people don't seem to take them seriously anymore.
    Yes, the vows are the most important for the people who get married. Because it's what they promise to each other. But as far as the state should be concerned, their most important aspect is if you signed the piece of paper. That's it. And that's fine.

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