View Poll Results: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

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    24 52.17%
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Thread: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

  1. #51
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    I would be fine with doing away with legal marriage and just letting people appoint others in contracts. If two people have a kid let them be the legal father and mother, when someone dies they can portion out wealth to their spouse or someone else. Do away with filing married in taxes and make everyone file as a single individual or designate a household.

    Basically, do away with divorce and just legally change contracts instead of going through the whole divorce process (which is expensive and time consuming). Don't recognize anything as a "marriage" from the state and let people decide.

  2. #52
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Ideally perhaps, but when property or children are involved, and there is a divorce or a death requiring division, it is hard for the State NOT to get involved unless there is a contract spelling out who-gets-what and it goes uncontested.
    Honesly, I think common law and contract law could cover that sufficiently with little more interference from government. In many states a "common law marriage" is handled in courts with the same standard as an officially married couple. Marriage is a contract, whether the state gets involved or not so I say expand common law to the issue, retract licensure, and let the courts handle it. I just don't like the idea of state and religious affairs(marriage) being open to government purview.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    I keep hearing about the "devaluing" of marriage, but I can never seem to get a straight answer on what exactly that means. Furthermore, while the divorce statistic is a hard number, I can never seem to get other hard numbers which illustrate how the problem is the "devaluing" of marriage.

    What this means, ultimately, is that the institution of marriage continues to be promoted both by the bureaucracy and by hysterical politicians despite its high failure rate and a complete lack of hard evidence as to why it fails so often and what might make a better alternative.

    Never fear, politicians will continue to sing the praises of marriage in front of the cameras because it will continue to be a cheap way to score votes for the foreseeable future.
    It's hard to nail down exactly how marriage came to be devalued, or how to distribute the responsibility, but the timing is pretty clear. Look what happened to divorce rates with the “sexual revolution” in the 1960s…



    This coincides with a trend of being much more accepting of all manner of sexual immorality; and with a greatly-lowered degree of respect, as a society, for the essential role of marriage and family. Our society has not recovered from the damage that was done here, half a century ago; and, barring any dramatic change in society similar to what caused this, it appears that a hundred years will pass, and the damage will still remain.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    This coincides with a trend of being much more accepting of all manner of sexual immorality; and with a greatly-lowered degree of respect, as a society, for the essential role of marriage and family. Our society has not recovered from the damage that was done here, half a century ago; and, barring any dramatic change in society similar to what caused this, it appears that a hundred years will pass, and the damage will still remain.
    It also coincides pretty closely with the introduction of the no-fault divorce. Maybe that's the real cause -- the fact that one no longer had to invent criminal or sinful behavior in order to get a divorce.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  5. #55
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    It also coincides pretty closely with the introduction of the no-fault divorce. Maybe that's the real cause -- the fact that one no longer had to invent criminal or sinful behavior in order to get a divorce.
    It also corresponded with a sharp increase in both the social acceptability and the actual incidence of the sort of “criminal or sinful behavior” that previously was generally considered to justify a divorce.

    In general, a very sharp decline in the respect in which marriage was held. We were “liberated” from the idea that you had to get married before you had sex, and before you started having children; and we were “liberated” from the idea of marriage as a lifetime commitment. We looked to the new, easy availability of birth control and abortion to free us from the consequences of sexual immorality and irresponsibility; and in so doing, we ended up massively increasing the degree to which we, as individuals and as a society are being adversely affected by these consequences.

    Before this happened, we were correctly very well aware of the tragic results of children coming from “broken homes”. So now, not only have we nearly tripled the rate of “broken homes” and of children coming therefrom; but we have, on top of that, whole new generations of children who were never born into intact families to begin with.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

  6. #56
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    It also corresponded with a sharp increase in both the social acceptability and the actual incidence of the sort of “criminal or sinful behavior” that previously was generally considered to justify a divorce.

    In general, a very sharp decline in the respect in which marriage was held. We were “liberated” from the idea that you had to get married before you had sex, and before you started having children; and we were “liberated” from the idea of marriage as a lifetime commitment. We looked to the new, easy availability of birth control and abortion to free us from the consequences of sexual immorality and irresponsibility; and in so doing, we ended up massively increasing the degree to which we, as individuals and as a society are being adversely affected by these consequences.

    Before this happened, we were correctly very well aware of the tragic results of children coming from “broken homes”. So now, not only have we nearly tripled the rate of “broken homes” and of children coming therefrom; but we have, on top of that, whole new generations of children who were never born into intact families to begin with.
    In other words, there was a whole lot of change going on, and we can't really pin down why it went up. Hell, that spike also came during a period when our leaders got caught doing a lot of bad things, thus diminishing the public's trust in them as a nation at the same time a whole lot of civil rights activists popped up and captured the country's imagination.

    So maybe it wasn't so much about the sexual revolution as it was about rejecting the package being sold to the public by people the public no longer trusted. Maybe it was about seeing the corruption in the way things had been getting done and rejecting it, then searching for a better alternative.

    If you roll back the clock to when marriage was a highly respected institution, there was a lot about the United States that was far from respectable, especially by today's standards. Maybe instead of trying to slow or prevent the crumbling of the old we should be finding a better new.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  7. #57
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    It also coincides pretty closely with the introduction of the no-fault divorce. Maybe that's the real cause -- the fact that one no longer had to invent criminal or sinful behavior in order to get a divorce.
    Which is a problem, just as getting rid of the waiting period before getting married. It means any two idiots can get married after knowing each other 10 minutes and get divorced after knowing each other 15 minutes. I think marriage should be hard to get into and harder to get out of.
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  8. #58
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which is a problem, just as getting rid of the waiting period before getting married. It means any two idiots can get married after knowing each other 10 minutes and get divorced after knowing each other 15 minutes. I think marriage should be hard to get into and harder to get out of.
    Why artificially limit the choices of competent adults?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  9. #59
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Why artificially limit the choices of competent adults?
    Because we have such a high percentage of incompetent adults?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  10. #60
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    Re: Should the state recognize marriage at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Because we have such a high percentage of incompetent adults?
    Okay, I'll rephrase my question: Why artificially limit the choices of adults that the law would classify competent to make their own decisions?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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