View Poll Results: Is it the proper role of government to pass laws to protect you from yourself?

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  • Yes, if the government passed laws to protect me from myself, it then protects everyone else too.

    4 5.48%
  • No, people are responsible for the consequences of their own actions.

    55 75.34%
  • IDK/Other

    14 19.18%
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Thread: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

  1. #81
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    It's actually a really weak-knee argument to try and claim that "Vice users are oppressed". It's a societal vice. A vice activity is naturally destructive to society. You as an individual forfeit your freedoms when you choose to engage in vices that attack the greater society.

    Taxes and laws are 'An eye for an eye' in this respect.

    When you as an individual make a choice to do clear viceful damage to the societal collective then that societal collective has a right to open your bank account and 'charge you' for your societal trespass.


    So the Libertarian argument is actually illogic attempting to pass itself off as logic when it is anything but. "I should be able to puff smoke in your breakfast at the cafe and insodoing rape society yet society should not be able to penalize me". Absolute illogic.

  2. #82
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    For example, ever have been filling up and it doesn't cut off right and a little bit of gas runs down your car and some on the ground. Did you then drive off?

    OMG! That's ILLEGAL! YOU committed a hazardous materials spill. Even if not deliberate and you not liable, YOU DID NOT REPORT THE HAZARDOUS MATERIALS SPILL YOU CAUSED! FELONY! FELONY!

    And then I get to rage that you grotesquely endangered the lives of others. A bus of children with an electrical short could pull up, and that HAZARDOUS MATERIALS SPILL YOU DID AND DIDN'T REPORT could burn every innocent little child on that bus to death - a horrible way to die! You evil bastard engaging in ILLEGAL dangerous actions without giving a damn about anyone but yourself!

    And if I don't drive a car, then I get to rage at you and everyone else in cars as pure evil, willing to burn little children alive, destroy the land, water and air... at least you - because of your ILLEGAL activities!
    The outrage comes when people feel like there isn't any justice and that is why they turn to the law. So if they can't petition the government for laws to protect them and provide justice then what other recourse do they have but to revolt and take the law into their own hands? Why would the government want the governed to do that?

    No laws are going to be 100% effective and the notion they have to be in order to deter crime or provide security and justice is nonsense. I'm unaware of any law that makes not reporting a minor gas spill while filling up a felony. Do they post signs at gas stations stating what the law is? They do for things like "no smoking" and "breathing vapors are harmful to your health". I think smoking a cigarette near a gas pump is illegal...and if it not, it should be. Or is that too much government intrusion? Imo, it's not.

    A lot of laws intended to protect people are lobbied for by insurance companies to help save them the cost of paying benefits for something that's easily prevented...ie: helmet laws helped prevent a lot serious head injuries.

  3. #83
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    On the whole I believe the fewer laws and regulations passed the better.

  4. #84
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    All those posts for that? I mentioned civil commitments because it's an even more straightforward example of how people's liberties are suspended for their own protection. Of course, it requires that there be probable cause of mental illness with subsequent risk of harm to self.

    The state can intervene if you're threatening suicide or driving drunk. So therefore... what? I.e., how does this tie back into personal freedom and responsibility?
    Its pretty simple. There is nothing wrong with passing laws to protect people - even from themselves. Drunk driving is a perfect example of that.
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Its pretty simple. There is nothing wrong with passing laws to protect people - even from themselves. Drunk driving is a perfect example of that.


    I would argue that the main rationale for banning drunk driving is to protect other people from the drunks.

  6. #86
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Artevelde View Post
    I would argue that the main rationale for banning drunk driving is to protect other people from the drunks.
    And that is one aspect of it to be sure. There is no denying that is a part. And another is to protect people from the negative consequences of their own behavior.

    The law about buckling up when you drive would be another example of a law which protects people from the negative consequences of their own behavior.
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And that is one aspect of it to be sure. There is no denying that is a part. And another is to protect people from the negative consequences of their own behavior.

    The law about buckling up when you drive would be another example of a law which protects people from the negative consequences of their own behavior.
    The one about wearing a safety belt is indeed a better example of a reasonable government regulation designed to prevent someone from harming themselves.
    That being said, it's best not to make too many laws and regulations restricting people's freedom.

  8. #88
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Artevelde View Post
    The one about wearing a safety belt is indeed a better example of a reasonable government regulation designed to prevent someone from harming themselves.
    That being said, it's best not to make too many laws and regulations restricting people's freedom.
    I would agree that we should keep this to what is the least necessary and should be cautious when doing so.

    A part of this comes back to the eternal questions about the balance between the individual and society. We have the famous line about "no man is an island" and that is certainly true. A person may take what they see as a private action which does not hurt others but it often does.
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  9. #89
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Republican government (the belief system, not the political party) endows its citizens with greater freedoms in the anticipation they will be responsible enough to keep society from slowly grinding its way toward ruin. That includes people with money and power helping those without it in anyway and every way they can, not just through government. The Founding Fathers were very self conscious about this, with many of them losing money or going bankrupt in their efforts to form a republican government. George Washington would not accept a salary even when his plantation was trending down economically.

    Whenever it comes to trying to make ends meet on any specific issue, the only demographic in the United States that consistently makes any compromises or takes on any burdens is the middle class. Everyone else thinks they should get every scrap they have and more.

    My response is broadly the same as the response of tyrants in the Roman Republic: people who can't take the responsibility along with their freedom can't be trusted with either.
    This was never supported by the founders.
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  10. #90
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    What is your opinion of the proper role of government?
    In my opinion, it is to provide for a legal mechanism to settle disputes. Of course, if it were performing this role, it would have no legitimate authority to protect you from yourself.

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