View Poll Results: Is it the proper role of government to pass laws to protect you from yourself?

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  • Yes, if the government passed laws to protect me from myself, it then protects everyone else too.

    4 5.48%
  • No, people are responsible for the consequences of their own actions.

    55 75.34%
  • IDK/Other

    14 19.18%
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Thread: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

  1. #41
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Hrm... so the guy who agreed with you 15 times that the government shouldn't be in health care is somehow betraying his libertarian lean?

    You do know that insurance agencies are generally non-governmental right? That's why I said "If you have health insurance, you're already paying for other's mistakes."

    So by all means, keep calling me a bad libertarian because I don't want the government in health care.
    You are not connecting the dots. You are, like many on the left, stuck on one point and seem to not be able to move past that point of discussion.

    It's almost like you have remembered the 'party' lines, but are unable to move on from that in to what difference would occur if those goals were reached.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  2. #42
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    You are not connecting the dots. You are, like many on the left, stuck on one point and seem to not be able to move past that point of discussion.

    It's almost like you have remembered the 'party' lines, but are unable to move on from that in to what difference would occur if those goals were reached.
    I'm so confused. Are you intentionally not addressing me?

    Here is what I say:
    - Government shouldn't be in healthcare. (For the 16th ****ing time)
    - You are paying for other's health care mistakes when you buy private health insurance. (You've never addressed this. If it isn't true, prove it.)

    This is all I've said over and over again. Please, tell me how I'm a lefty communist marxist.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  3. #43
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    This is all I've said over and over again.
    Yes, I have already pointed out that you are repeating yourself. Why you can you not move on to imagine a time when government is out of healthcare, there are many more options available in terms of health care from specific insurance to cash business with local doctors?

    That is the point I am discussing, and how with more options that can more specifically be tailored to your lifestyle, the odds are much better that you will not be paying for others, or at least not nearly as much. Add in a removal of the whole thing about ER's having to take anyone... change it from them writing off loss to actually requiring payment from those that use it, if they don't pay, no future admittance... You start to rebuild towards personal responsibility for ones actions/decisions, and less of everyone else having to suffer the idiots of the world.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  4. #44
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    In regards to the poll question, no, it is not the government's job to make laws that 'protect us from ourselves.' I think that personal responsibility plays a major role. However, in regards to personal responsibility on a general level, I think that personal responsibility is important, but that some people can go quite overboard with that mindset.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  5. #45
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    We have moved so far from personal responsibility it is a damn shame. Government has overextended itself into all sorts of areas it has no business.
    Then name one specific area...
    or I will....
    dental care
    For 50 years I did not take good care of my teeth...I went years without visiting a dentist....
    No, the piper must be paid.
    And I am not the only one...Should dental care be included in the ACA ?
    Should dental care be affordable for all ?
    Yes, I agree with the responsibility premise, but many of us are not that responsible
    And , I question the statement " .......government has no business..."
    The vote was "I do not know - other".

  6. #46
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    The proper role of government is such:

    - Maintain a justice system to prevent/seek retribution for coercion/violence between citizens
    - Organize national defense
    - Maintain the few programs that would be near impossible in the free market, IE: public roads, radio spectrum division, etc.

    The government has no role in legislating non-violent morality, or telling people what they should or shouldn't consume. It's our lives, our bodies, our decisions.
    Look around - are we doing a good job handling our own lives ?
    sloth
    obesity
    health issues
    illiteracy
    crime
    self hatred
    ...................................
    The thing is - how can government best solve these problems..
    education ?
    or twenty million warning lables...?

  7. #47
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Look around - are we doing a good job handling our own lives ?
    sloth
    obesity
    health issues
    illiteracy
    crime
    self hatred
    ...................................
    The thing is - how can government best solve these problems..
    education ?
    or twenty million warning lables...?
    People are going to make their decisions. The government coming in and playing mommy isn't the answer. You are, and always have been, responsible for your own actions.

    Education and strong laws requiring companies be forthwright about their product's ingredients would go a long way.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  8. #48
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    For 50 years I did not take good care of my teeth...I went years without visiting a dentist....
    No, the piper must be paid.
    And it is your responsibility to pay that piper, not that of anyone else.

    Yes, I agree with the responsibility premise, but many of us are not that responsible
    That is your problem and your problem alone. Enough big bills, perhaps you will learn.

    And , I question the statement " .......government has no business..."
    Please point out to me where in the Constitution it says the government has the ability to determine what sort of insurance you buy, to force you to have it, to control how much a doctor can charge, or to take from one group of people to help pay for your treatment.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  9. #49
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by earthworm View Post
    Look around - are we doing a good job handling our own lives ?
    sloth
    obesity
    health issues
    illiteracy
    crime
    self hatred
    ...................................
    The thing is - how can government best solve these problems..
    education ?
    or twenty million warning lables...?
    But these are all government issues..

    Sloth= no jobs

    Obesity=government lack of control usually due to them being paid mega-bucks just to shut up..

    Health issues = see above..

    Illiteracy = crap teachers..

    Crime = lack of hope..

    Self Hatred = anger at the way you were manipulated, and churned out of a school that you hoped would set you on the right path..

  10. #50
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Because the philosophy that informs this discussion is one essentially built on selfishness, and that's disgusting.
    Self-interest is a fundamentally natural trait of living things. Living things tend to want to survive and thrive. Therefore their behaviors are inherently competitive. You need to shake yourself of this idea that something fundamentally natural is "disgusting."

    The gist of a "personal responsibility" argument is always about blaming people for having bad luck.
    No, it's about recognizing that the only way to learn and grow is to notice and acknowledge that our own personal actions have personal consequences (naturally), and that if we don't like those consequences, we can change our actions.

    It's not really about people who have made bad choices.
    How is it not? Of course it is.

    It's about claiming that bad choices brought about unfortunate people's bad luck. That's an illusory way of making yourself and your own selfishness feel better, to pretend that you deserve the good things you have and that others who don't have those things deserve not to.
    You're straw manning.

    My philosophy is only "welfare-oriented" if community and teamwork are dirty words, which they are in a fundamentally selfish philosophy. The idea that we sink or swim together, by working together, and sharing in the rewards and sacrifices of that work, doesn't allow one person to rise up by abusing others.
    It also doesn't allow any person to choose if they want to be associated with all those schemes. If a person wants nothing to do with you or your ideas, he should be able to opt out, foregoing both the work/sacrifice as well as the rewards. You know what forced work is, right?

    And instead of looking down on people who have it worse than we do, we have a responsibility to them to help them up, just as they would have to us were our roles reversed.
    It's up to each person to decide if they feel morally obliged to help others, and how they think it's most appropriate to try to do so. You can't legislate a sense of morality into people. You can only restrict their freedom or property for your own ends.

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