View Poll Results: Is it the proper role of government to pass laws to protect you from yourself?

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  • Yes, if the government passed laws to protect me from myself, it then protects everyone else too.

    4 5.48%
  • No, people are responsible for the consequences of their own actions.

    55 75.34%
  • IDK/Other

    14 19.18%
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Thread: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

  1. #111
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    It's not a perfect example, actually, rather a somewhat lazy/clumsy example, but regardless, if simply put there is nothing wrong with passing laws for people's protection, should we pass more laws than we currently have (to protect people from themselves)? If so, like what?

    The thread is about a liberty/security balance.
    No its a very good example. Seat belts are another.

    That is one opinion. This thread is also the usual predictable bitch session about what the far right calls "nanny government" attendant evil that is perceived to come with that pejorative label.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    People authorized to represent society.
    And how exactly does society let us know that she has authorized these particular individuals to represent her preferences?

    (Note: I anticipate the need for another "Cycled detected. Abort!" messages.)

  3. #113
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    And how exactly does society let us know that she has authorized these particular individuals to represent her preferences?

    (Note: I anticipate the need for another "Cycled detected. Abort!" messages.)
    You fell of your triclycle again?

    If you want to know the origins of the Constitutional Convention, how it was called, who called it and how it was written and then ratified by the States, there are many excellent sources available to you.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  4. #114
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Call me crazy but my time in the Corps taught to be man and take responsibility for all my actions regardless of how stupid.
    Good for you. Most of us have ample opportunity to take responsibility for stupid actions.

  5. #115
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You fell of your triclycle again?

    If you want to know the origins of the Constitutional Convention, how it was called, who called it and how it was written and then ratified by the States, there are many excellent sources available to you.
    Nice dodge.

    Yes, we all know that certain individuals chose certain other individuals to write a constitution, and then yet other individuals ratified that constitution.

    But, not surprisingly, you are avoiding the question. How do we know that society wants those particular individuals to represent her preferences?

    You said there is a balance between the individual and society. How does society tell us whether a person is acting as an individual or acting on behalf of society?
    Last edited by Federalist; 07-29-13 at 05:27 PM.

  6. #116
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Nice dodge.

    Yes, we all know that certain individuals chose certain other individuals to write a constitution, and then yet other individuals ratified that constitution.

    But, not surprisingly, you are avoiding the question. How do we know that society wants those particular individuals to represent her preferences?

    You said there is a balance between the individual and society. How does society tell us whether a person is acting as an individual or acting on behalf of society?
    It was more of a Lincoln.

    I already answered your question. If you want to know the origins of the Constitutional Convention, how it was called, who called it and how it was written and then ratified by the States, there are many excellent sources available to you.

    I would be happy to recommend some of the better one if you wish.

    Was the person empowered to act on behalf of society?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I already answered your question.
    Nope.

    You have yet to explain how we are supposed to know the preference of society. You have only given us examples of the individual or groups of individuals acting.

    We have no way of knowing whether society approves of their behavior.

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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I am astonished at the degree people demand the government control people to the finest detail. Of course, that also means demanding the government control you - ie protect you from yourself.

    Way back at the start of this country, a French philosopher named Torqueville toured the USA marveling at this new concept of uneducated people running their own government. While he saw this new concept of almost unrestricted personal freedom as amazing, he predicted it would not last. In his opinion that due to human nature, people would vote to outlaw anything a person does not like or do. Since there is almost nothing everyone agrees on, then ultimately almost everything would be regulated, outlaws or restricted. In short, he predicted Americans would become the most regulated, watched and constrained people with endless new laws and regulations.

    What is your opinion of the proper role of government?
    The main purpose of government is to secure the free exercise of the People's rights and liberties, provide common defense and general welfare. On the whole, we are a nation of busybodies and it's leading to more and more law, more data basing, more police control over our lives. People would rather pretend that it's not them, it's other people; but they would be wrong. We need to learn to mind our own business and if a person ain't hurting anyone, then it's not your business.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #119
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Nope.

    You have yet to explain how we are supposed to know the preference of society. You have only given us examples of the individual or groups of individuals acting.

    We have no way of knowing whether society approves of their behavior.
    Lets cut the crap here and cut to the chase.

    Do you accept the United States government and the government of your State as legitimate?
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Lets cut the crap here and cut to the chase.

    Do you accept the United States government and the government of your State as legitimate?
    That's really the question, it tends to be the libertarian crazies who act like the government is some alien entity imposed on them from above and not answerable to anyone, which is absurd. We, the people, voted them in. They are our responsibility and when they do things we don't like, it's our job to vote them out.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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