View Poll Results: Is it the proper role of government to pass laws to protect you from yourself?

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  • Yes, if the government passed laws to protect me from myself, it then protects everyone else too.

    4 5.48%
  • No, people are responsible for the consequences of their own actions.

    55 75.34%
  • IDK/Other

    14 19.18%
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Thread: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

  1. #101
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    And in this "balance between the individual and society" how exactly does society act to express it's preferences?
    That answer is in the national and state Constitutions.

    http://constitutionus.com/

    you can google your own state constitution to learn more.
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    Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    That answer is in the national and state Constitutions.

    http://constitutionus.com/

    you can google your own state constitution to learn more.
    I asked how society acts. The constitutions to which you refer were written by individuals.

  3. #103
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I asked how society acts. The constitutions to which you refer were written by individuals.
    So what? They were then approved, ratified and sanctioned by the duly constituted representatives of society acting in the name of the people as a group.

    Just look at the Preamble to the Constitution

    WE THE PEOPLE.....

    PEOPLE is a colective word. IT does NOT say, we acting as individuals....

    Read the rest of the Preamble and you will see it sets up the Constitution as a very collectivist document for American society.

    We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


    Terms like COMMON DEFENSE & GENERAL WELFARE are more than just individual self concerns. They apply to society and are clearly beyond the individual or the individual concerns of many individuals.
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-29-13 at 12:45 PM.
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  4. #104
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    Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So what?
    Well first you say that society expresses it preferences through a constitution, but that constitution was written by individuals not by society.

    So if you want to claim that there is this "balance between the individual and society" then you ought to be able to tell us how society expresses her (his?) preferences.

  5. #105
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Well first you say that society expresses it preferences through a constitution, but that constitution was written by individuals not by society.

    So if you want to claim that there is this "balance between the individual and society" then you ought to be able to tell us how society expresses her (his?) preferences.
    just did . Go back and read it.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  6. #106
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    Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    just did . Go back and read it.
    You described the actions of a group of individuals, not society. You are unable to explain how society expresses it preferences. You have only told us how a group of individuals expressed their preference.

  7. #107
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Its pretty simple. There is nothing wrong with passing laws to protect people - even from themselves. Drunk driving is a perfect example of that.
    It's not a perfect example, actually, rather a somewhat lazy/clumsy example, but regardless, if simply put there is nothing wrong with passing laws for people's protection, should we pass more laws than we currently have (to protect people from themselves)? If so, like what?

    The thread is about a liberty/security balance. I believe we are out of balance and too heavy on the security in several respects.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-29-13 at 01:48 PM.

  8. #108
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Call me crazy but my time in the Corps taught to be man and take responsibility for all my actions regardless of how stupid.

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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    I am astonished at the degree people demand the government control people to the finest detail. Of course, that also means demanding the government control you - ie protect you from yourself.

    Way back at the start of this country, a French philosopher named Torqueville toured the USA marveling at this new concept of uneducated people running their own government. While he saw this new concept of almost unrestricted personal freedom as amazing, he predicted it would not last. In his opinion that due to human nature, people would vote to outlaw anything a person does not like or do. Since there is almost nothing everyone agrees on, then ultimately almost everything would be regulated, outlaws or restricted. In short, he predicted Americans would become the most regulated, watched and constrained people with endless new laws and regulations.

    What is your opinion of the proper role of government?
    You mean Tocqueville. Torqueville sounds like a drag strip.

  10. #110
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    Re: Do you believe in personal freedom and responsibility?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    You described the actions of a group of individuals, not society. .
    People authorized to represent society.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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