View Poll Results: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

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  • Yes, "innocent" would be a welcome addition as an option.

    11 28.95%
  • No, but we should treat "not guilty" as "innocent".

    7 18.42%
  • No, the current system works fine. ('Splain yerself, Lucy)

    18 47.37%
  • Something else.

    2 5.26%
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Thread: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

  1. #71
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    The OJ Simpson case is a prime example of this.
    Across the board, yes. Individuals have the right to bring suit, and then the system is designed to allow other individuals to determine if culpability is present using the civil standards for culpability, rather than the criminal standards for guilt.

    To argue that civil cases should be disallowed due to the results of a criminal suit is to remove the rights of the people. Just because a person has received immunity from criminal prosecution due to their 5th amendment rights does not mean that others should lose their right to present a lawsuit regarding culpability.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  2. #72
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    So if you fail at one, you might as well give it a shot with the other? It's still double jeopardy.
    Nope, you don't understand the term.



  3. #73
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I'm not so sure. Police often coerce false confessions, and prosecutors often run with that as their only evidence. Yes, that is technically evidence, but I do not find it implausible at all that in the past juries have felt the accused was indeed completely innocent... because the prosecution's case was so bad and transparent... but could only render a not guilty verdict as that was their only option.
    And in cases like that, how could they result in your "innocent" verdict? If there's an actual confession there will always be some doubt about innocence.
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  4. #74
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    And in cases like that, how could they result in your "innocent" verdict? If there's an actual confession there will always be some doubt about innocence.
    There could be. And if there is question regarding innocence they can still opt for "not guilty". There has never been a suggestion in this thread that "innocent" would replace "not guilty", though many seem to treat the idea as if it does. Anyway, the prosecution could also present a completely unbelievable case, as well. False confessions are often fed to the defendants, with "facts" that fit only a small fraction of what they do know, so it's not implausible.

    False confessions is only one possibility, and was mentioned only for example purposes.
    Last edited by radcen; 07-23-13 at 11:52 AM.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  5. #75
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    It already is: dismissed with prejudice (innocent of the charges, and cannot be retried for them.)

  6. #76
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Nope, you don't understand the term.
    You weren't responding to me, but... I understand the term, as it is applied now, but I believe the term has been perverted over time.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  7. #77
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    There could be. And if there is question regarding innocence they can still opt for "not guilty". There has never been a suggestion in this thread that "innocent" would replace "not guilty", though many seem to treat the idea as if it does. Anyway, the prosecution could also present a completely unbelievable case, as well. False confessions are often fed to the defendants, with "facts" that fit only a small fraction of what they do know, so it's not implausible.

    False confessions is only one possibility, and was mentioned only for example purposes.
    I just can't see any prosecutor going to trial if there's pat evidence of innocence, which is what you would need to be "innocent beyond a reasonable doubt".
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
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  8. #78
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I just can't see any prosecutor going to trial if there's pat evidence of innocence, which is what you would need to be "innocent beyond a reasonable doubt".
    I think many prosecutors are arrogant, and they count on most people still believing they're infallible.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  9. #79
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    I think many prosecutors are arrogant, and they count on most people still believing they're infallible.
    Trials cost money. If enough of cases aren't convictions then someone above their head is going to start complaining. It's in the best interest of prosecutors to have at least a so-so case if they're going to trial, and that precludes an "innocent beyond a reasonable doubt" result.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  10. #80
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Trials cost money. If enough of cases aren't convictions then someone above their head is going to start complaining. It's in the best interest of prosecutors to have at least a so-so case if they're going to trial, and that precludes an "innocent beyond a reasonable doubt" result.
    Everybody loses a trial here and there, but no one wants the losses to stack up. Maybe the possibility of being slapped down with an innocent verdict would cause those prosecutors who have weak evidence to rethink taking it to trial in the first place.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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