View Poll Results: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

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  • Yes, "innocent" would be a welcome addition as an option.

    11 28.95%
  • No, but we should treat "not guilty" as "innocent".

    7 18.42%
  • No, the current system works fine. ('Splain yerself, Lucy)

    18 47.37%
  • Something else.

    2 5.26%
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Thread: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

  1. #31
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Disagree. "Not guilty" would leave that open, as is now. "Innocent" would be a finding of "There was no crime, as far as this defendant is concerned." If there was no crime, there is nothing on which to base a civil suit or any other further actions.
    That won't stop the idiot liberals.
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Disagree. "Not guilty" would leave that open, as is now. "Innocent" would be a finding of "There was no crime, as far as this defendant is concerned." If there was no crime, there is nothing on which to base a civil suit or any other further actions.
    Nope. Perhaps you fail to understand that a civil suit does not have to be based upon a crime and the ones that are tied in have different legal issues to decide. Pass Contributory negligence laws and you will stop a great many lawsuits in their tracks. That is the more common sense approach if you are so worried about it--if you contributed to your injury then you get nothing even if it was only 1% and your contribution was breaking into the house.

  3. #33
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?
    Guilty, Not Guilty is exactly how it should be. Our court system was set up for the state to prove guilt, not the individual to prove innocence.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  4. #34
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which is exactly what "not guilty" is. The prosecution hasn't proven it's case.




    What I am advocating is that we adopt the Scottish system, under which "Not Proven' indicates that although the jury believes the accused to be guilty but there is not enough evidence for a conviction.

  5. #35
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    What I am advocating is that we adopt the Scottish system, under which "Not Proven' indicates that although the jury believes the accused to be guilty but there is not enough evidence for a conviction.
    No need. State must prove guilt. It is either guilty or not guilty based on state evidence. That's it. No little "well I think this guy is guilty, but there wasn't" blah blah blah. Guilty or not guilty. State did its job or it couldn't prove action of the other party. Nothing more, nothing less.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
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  6. #36
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Nope. Perhaps you fail to understand that a civil suit does not have to be based upon a crime and the ones that are tied in have different legal issues to decide. Pass Contributory negligence laws and you will stop a great many lawsuits in their tracks. That is the more common sense approach if you are so worried about it--if you contributed to your injury then you get nothing even if it was only 1% and your contribution was breaking into the house.
    Perhaps I understand just fine, but also see the flaws in the system and see room for improvement.

    With few exceptions, the opposition to the idea has been nothing more than, "...but, but, but... we've always done it this way."


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Guilty, Not Guilty is exactly how it should be. Our court system was set up for the state to prove guilt, not the individual to prove innocence.
    That is how our system was set up... and it has evolved away from that.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
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  7. #37
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    That is how our system was set up... and it has evolved away from that.
    And we need to get back to it. The State must prove guilt, not the individual proving innocence. It's ass backwards to put it on the individual. The State wants to use its force against the free exercise of rights, then the State must prove its case.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #38
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    our legal doctrine is "presumed innocent until proven guilty."

    if guilt is not proven, the individual is presumed innocent.

    ergo, "innocent" is already part of the system.

  9. #39
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    our legal doctrine is "presumed innocent until proven guilty."

    if guilt is not proven, the individual is presumed innocent.

    ergo, "innocent" is already part of the system.
    In theory. On paper.

    In practical reality? Not so much.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  10. #40
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    Re: Should "innocent" be an option as a verdict in criminal trials?

    The people have spoken.

    The status quo of a flawed system... a system that doesn't really work as advertised... is it.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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