View Poll Results: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

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  • Yes, unions killed Detroit

    19 40.43%
  • No, unions are not at fault

    28 59.57%
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Thread: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

  1. #61
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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But even your above argument attempts to place the blame squarely on unions although you cleverly add life span and health care into the mix. All this tells me is you're fixated on blaming the other guy's political values on the problem when truth be told it wasn't just social engineering alone that caused the mess. Ask yourself why did auto companies leave Detroit even after auto unions were effectively destroyed, pension plans were effectively done away with and the state (I presume) shifted to a right-to-work state? Why did Detroit continue to have problems?

    I can agree with you that unions played a significant role here, but you're being dishonest if you can't admit that there were other factors that were involved, i.e., a static tax code that never changed as industries left and local government did nothing to create incentives to lure new industry to the area, i.e., shipping. Or better yet, shift your business model to produce something other than cars.
    Nobody has said that they were the only cause, but they most certainly were a significant cause, perhaps the most significant cause. Why do you think that dodging that fact makes the argument wrong? Unions have demonstrably given massive amounts of money and influence to getting Democratic politicians elected for the express reason of funding and supporting their agenda. There is no question about this whatsoever. In fact, without their funding and influence, it's questionable whether these politicians would have gotten elected at all.

    Detroit has problems because they have all of the financial requirements that they had before being a right-to-work state. Changing to right-to-work doesn't invalidate all of the union contracts they've written over the years.

    Why don't you understand that?
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  2. #62
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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Car assembly has not taken place within the city of Detroit since the 1920's. Automotive union activities can have had little effect since then. Why don't you understand that?
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  3. #63
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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Most Japanese cars sold in America are made in America by non union workers.

    "More than 407,000 jobs in the U.S. are due to Japanese automakers and their dealers, reports the Japanese Automobile Manufacturers Association. And nowadays, Japanese makers are producing most of the cars they sell in the U.S. in North America -- 68% altogether."

    7 in 10 Japanese cars sold in U.S. made in N. America
    Pardon, but I find that ironic. The Japanese worker is unionized in Japan but the US worker working for a Japanese company is not. Well we have cheap cars but at a cost.

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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Pardon, but I find that ironic. The Japanese worker is unionized in Japan but the US worker working for a Japanese company is not. Well we have cheap cars but at a cost.
    States and cities with non union auto workers are not declaring bankruptcy, see the difference?

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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    YES YES YES, BLAME the unions for the FREE TRADE of Wall Street! KEEP the lies flowing!
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  6. #66
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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Just because you don't have a Union doesn't mean you don't get decent pay.

    Smart employers keep the Unions out by paying so well that the Union would only be a negative.

    Detroit and other municipalities are choking on the pension plans. So any of you that have regular SS like I do, be thankful. Those guys didn't pay into SS and now the places that made all these promises are unable to fulfill them.


    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Pardon, but I find that ironic. The Japanese worker is unionized in Japan but the US worker working for a Japanese company is not. Well we have cheap cars but at a cost.

  7. #67
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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Public sector unions and democrat politicians did this to Detroit. Look around. It is happening all over. This is the result when there is no one representing the fleeced taxpayer.

    Sell the city. Negotiate with the retired union members the same way Obama did. Give them pennies on the dollar and be done with it. If you cannot pay them in cash give them a couple of acres of prime Detroit wasteland.

    Then learn the lessons for the United States and back away from all of these monstrous deals like Obamacare and amnesty.

  8. #68
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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    States and cities with non union auto workers are not declaring bankruptcy, see the difference?


    Yes, let's take a close look at where those auto places relocated. Kentucky, Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina and Tennessee which are all states that ranked in the top ten as far as America's poorest states- America’s Richest States - 24/7 Wall St.

    So, they may not be declaring bankruptcy due to poor mismanagement but that does not mean that the state is in good health as far as percentage of poverty rate, income or employment rates. Having a large sector of people who cannot afford the basics is nothing to celebrate. Low wage states are not pushing up any kind of standard of living.

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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Yes, let's take a close look at where those auto places relocated. Kentucky, Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina and Tennessee which are all states that ranked in the top ten as far as America's poorest states- America’s Richest States - 24/7 Wall St.

    So, they may not be declaring bankruptcy due to poor mismanagement but that does not mean that the state is in good health as far as percentage of poverty rate, income or employment rates. Having a large sector of people who cannot afford the basics is nothing to celebrate. Low wage states are not pushing up any kind of standard of living.
    Facts are facts and the facts are Detroit declared bankruptcy while states that had right to work laws in place have picked up the jobs Detroit lost. Getting those jobs did not make those states poorer, it made them richer or at least less poor.

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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Just because you don't have a Union doesn't mean you don't get decent pay.

    Smart employers keep the Unions out by paying so well that the Union would only be a negative.

    Detroit and other municipalities are choking on the pension plans. So any of you that have regular SS like I do, be thankful. Those guys didn't pay into SS and now the places that made all these promises are unable to fulfill them.
    No, unions push up wages when they are a threat. Once unions are in right to work states, they are no longer is a threat. Look at Michigan, they are a right to work state and their wages have been pushed down to half of what the former generation made. They are choking on pension plans due to mismanagement. Also, better watch out. There are some politicians that want to do with your social security what they are doing to public pensions.

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