View Poll Results: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

Voters
47. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, unions killed Detroit

    19 40.43%
  • No, unions are not at fault

    28 59.57%
Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 106

Thread: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

  1. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Denio Junction
    Last Seen
    11-13-14 @ 12:09 AM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    7,039
    Blog Entries
    4

    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    I wouldn't buy a muni bond in any city, county or state. You'd be a fool to buy them at any price.

  2. #22
    Sage

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    8,180

    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    I don't think it's as simple as saying the unions caused the bankruptcy, but I answered Yes anyway because they enabled it. If you had asked me if other things (voters, leadership, crime, etc.) caused the bankruptcy, I might also answer yes. Not sure a singular cause can be found here.

  3. #23
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,763

    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    At a time when the auto industry is bouncing back Detroit goes bust? Maybe because auto manufacturers have moved to right to work states? Maybe because public unions in Detroit have wage and benefit packages that are out of hand? There is a lesson here, learn it.
    I know it's easy to see things from that prism, especially if you hold strong conservative values, but pension funds whether corporate or government run don't bankrupt cities. Mismanagement does! Lack of adaptation i.e., not changing your city zoning or revamping enterprise zones) does! Refusing to change your financial structures (local tax codes) does! All of these things led to Detroit's demise. Anyone who thinks unions are to blame are just playing to their own politically ideological bend.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  4. #24
    Sage


    MaggieD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago Area
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    43,243
    Blog Entries
    43

    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I know it's easy to see things from that prism, especially if you hold strong conservative values, but pension funds whether corporate or government run don't bankrupt cities. Mismanagement does! Lack of adaptation i.e., not changing your city zoning or revamping enterprise zones) does! Refusing to change your financial structures (local tax codes) does! All of these things led to Detroit's demise. Anyone who thinks unions are to blame are just playing to their own politically ideological bend.
    Even if I accept everything you say here, it doesn't hold water -- since public sector unions have done everything in their power to keep that same Democratic machine in office since forever.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  5. #25
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    When you try to explain the financial destruction of an entire city with a single factor, you've done something wrong. When you try to explain the financial destruction of an entire city with a single factor that you are biased against, you've done something even more wrong. Detroit's financial collapse is the result of a series of problems not just one and of course it's not going to just be unions as unions influence, but do not determine, policy. Even further, there were probably things that factored into Detroit's problems that weren't even in Detroit's control.

    This is like when people try to explain the failure of education systems on "bad teachers" or "tenure". It's just incredibly simplistic and usually based in blind partisanship.

  6. #26
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,763

    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Even if I accept everything you say here, it doesn't hold water -- since public sector unions have done everything in their power to keep that same Democratic machine in office since forever.
    Then there's nothing I or anyone can say to you to change your perspective on the matter since you've so firmly entrenched in the one facet your believe was the singular cause of the Detroit's economic downfall. It's sad really. Until you and others are willing to accept that there were other factors involved in how this proverbial cat was skinned, you'll hold true to your single-minded templated, ideological view point.

    In short, you want to blame unions because you don't like them. But the truth is union benefits were NOT the only reason the city of Detroit fell apart.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

  7. #27
    Sage


    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    18,261

    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    No, the unions did not. The government, in bed with unions and other corruption, did. The foolish thing is that the electorate voted these same people in office for decade after decade, and not one of those elected officials ever did a damn thing to correct the problem. The most recent mayor may be an exception, but it was too little too late. If Detroit could manage to make the place attractive for business again, they could find their way out of this, but it will be painful. It's easy to understand that the pensions in question were not negotiated in good faith with the welfare of the entire city in mind. To demand now that the city honor the breech is pouring salt in the wound that the unions themselves created with a complicit government.

  8. #28
    Sage
    rabbitcaebannog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Last Seen
    12-09-17 @ 08:35 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    10,918

    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    At a time when the auto industry is bouncing back Detroit goes bust? Maybe because auto manufacturers have moved to right to work states? Maybe because public unions in Detroit have wage and benefit packages that are out of hand? There is a lesson here, learn it.
    Um, Detroit is a right to work state and I hear that they still have auto workers in the state only they are making half of what the last generation made. The same generation that had a very nice middle class life. Now they have made these workers insecure and in the ranks of the working poor. Great priorities.

  9. #29
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Where they have FOX on in bars and restaurants
    Last Seen
    09-14-14 @ 02:09 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    14,700

    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I know it's easy to see things from that prism, especially if you hold strong conservative values, but pension funds whether corporate or government run don't bankrupt cities. Mismanagement does! Lack of adaptation i.e., not changing your city zoning or revamping enterprise zones) does! Refusing to change your financial structures (local tax codes) does! All of these things led to Detroit's demise. Anyone who thinks unions are to blame are just playing to their own politically ideological bend.
    Unions are at least 50% to blame.

  10. #30
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,763

    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    Unions are at least 50% to blame.
    Unions being 50% to blame does not make them 100% liable.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

Page 3 of 11 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •