View Poll Results: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

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  • Yes, unions killed Detroit

    19 40.43%
  • No, unions are not at fault

    28 59.57%
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Thread: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Cities may go bankrupt because of private unions.

    But that is only a small part of the tale. Detroit owes its public sector union workers lots and lots and lots of money they can never pay.

    Detroit is broken because Democratic politicians offered up wonderful sweetheart deals to public unions. A private union can break an industry. It takes democratic politicians and public sector unions to really screw up whole cities, whole states, and whole nations.

    Yes it was public sector unions and their lapdogs the Democratic party politicians. Plundering the taxpayer only works until the taxpayer realizes he is free to move. That is why Alabama is filling up.
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 07-22-13 at 12:18 AM.

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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    At a time when the auto industry is bouncing back Detroit goes bust? Maybe because auto manufacturers have moved to right to work states? Maybe because public unions in Detroit have wage and benefit packages that are out of hand? There is a lesson here, learn it.
    The focus should be on all involved. Poor management, however, should top the list if anything does. Odd how some always go toward criticism of workers and not management and leadership. Though even those likely would end to all the reasons for what happened.

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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    At a time when the auto industry is bouncing back Detroit goes bust? Maybe because auto manufacturers have moved to right to work states? Maybe because public unions in Detroit have wage and benefit packages that are out of hand? There is a lesson here, learn it.
    detroit has been facing problems since 1951,when their population since its peak in 1950 has been on a constant decline,between taxpayers leaving the state,business going under due to extreme competition from govt protected big 3,and unfriendly bussiness environment.

    detroits success wasnt from chrysler gm and ford,it was from many different manufacturors pre ww2,most of which died post ww2 because theycouldnt compete with no govt backing against govt backed big 3,who to this day are the most subsidized auto manufacturors in the world.companies like amc,nash packard etc fueled detroit,when they went under or got absorbed,the city lost mostits base.


    further when detroit got big,it started becoming unfriendly towards bussiness,many manufacturors left for other states.heck in texas alone there are ford plants building trucks,most american produced autos arent made in detroit at all.


    it is the tail of a city that has been failing for over 60 years,with its leadership denying a problem to its public while kicking the can down the road,hoping the problem doesnt affect them but blows up on the guy who replaces him.
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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    At a time when the auto industry is bouncing back Detroit goes bust? Maybe because auto manufacturers have moved to right to work states? Maybe because public unions in Detroit have wage and benefit packages that are out of hand? There is a lesson here, learn it.
    I think they played a part. The two biggest factors I think are:

    - the mortgage industry crisis of 2008 that reverberated into all industries that depended on consumer borrowing.
    - the high cost of gasoline also from 2008 due to it holding an oligopoly on personal transportation, OPEC and the oil futures market middleman created a disincentive for people to buy new cars, especially the lower mpg cars that made up most of Detroit's available enventory.
    - people were laid off and moved to other cities and although "the US auto industry has reboounded", its a leaner meaner industry and besides, many of the people who moved started lives elsewhere and never moved back.

    What I don't particularly support is rescuing the City of Detroit. I was watching Ed Schultz over the weekend who had these grandios ideas on a federal effort to rescue ad rebuild Detroit. My question is why? If people don't want to live there then why force the matter? I can think of a lot of places I'd rather live and imagine I'm not all that different than others I that respect. I also imagine a lot f people lived there mainly because that's where their job was. To me it makes more sense to create the economic opportunity where the people are instead of trying to encourage people to move back to a freezing cold, run down environment.

    I do think yanking the retirement from under former city employees and those who worked hard all of their lives living in a city they probably didnt particular enjoy and now are about to retire is tragic. I'd try to find a way to help those people in a way that doesn't try to force revitalization of city that to be honest only had a major city population because that's where the economic opportunity was. I cannot support some huge effort to rebuilt Detroit when due to geography cannot deliver the quality of life it's former residents might preferred outside of work and entertainment options for which their money created a market. With the same money I bet former Detroit residents would have better enjoyed in Nevada, California, Louisiana, New Mexico, Georgia or Florida. If someone wants to pour a ton of money into rebuilding Detroit as a US manufacturing center, it makes more sense to invite its former residents to be a part of doing so someplace nice to live...if at all.
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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Had it not been for union influence on the politics of Detroit, they almost certainly could have worked out the rest of the problems. You can keep repeating your pro-union nonsense all you want and asserting that everyone who disagrees must hate unions, but the facts are the facts. The biggest single influence on the bankruptcy of Detroit are the unions. Deal with it.
    I've never claimed to be pro-union. What I have said is unions aren't the sole cause of Detroit's economic problems. My only argument throughout this thread in that regard has been to try to get people to understand this. Were they a primary reason? Perhaps; very likely yes. But they were NOT the sole cause. The only folks who are being single-minded on this topic are those posters like yourself who can't seem to see beyond their anti-union bias, i.e., "the biggest single influence on the bankruptcy of Detroit are the unions".

    Well, which is it? Are unions the "single influence" or are they the "biggest influence"? They can't be both.
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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    I think they played a part. The two biggest factors I think are:

    - the mortgage industry crisis of 2008 that reverberated into all industries that depended on consumer borrowing.
    - the high cost of gasoline also from 2008 due to it holding an oligopoly on personal transportation, OPEC and the oil futures market middleman created a disincentive for people to buy new cars, especially the lower mpg cars that made up most of Detroit's available enventory.
    - people were laid off and moved to other cities and although "the US auto industry has reboounded", its a leaner meaner industry and besides, many of the people who moved started lives elsewhere and never moved back.

    What I don't particularly support is rescuing the City of Detroit. I was watching Ed Schultz over the weekend who had these grandios ideas on a federal effort to rescue ad rebuild Detroit. My question is why? If people don't want to live there then why force the matter? I can think of a lot of places I'd rather live and imagine I'm not all that different than others I that respect. I also imagine a lot f people lived there mainly because that's where their job was. To me it makes more sense to create the economic opportunity where the people are instead of trying to encourage people to move back to a freezing cold, run down environment.

    I do think yanking the retirement from under former city employees and those who worked hard all of their lives living in a city they probably didnt particular enjoy and now are about to retire is tragic. I'd try to find a way to help those people in a way that doesn't try to force revitalization of city that to be honest only had a major city population because that's where the economic opportunity was. I cannot support some huge effort to rebuilt Detroit when due to geography cannot deliver the quality of life it's former residents might preferred outside of work and entertainment options for which their money created a market. With the same money I bet former Detroit residents would have better enjoyed in Nevada, California, Louisiana, New Mexico, Georgia or Florida. If someone wants to pour a ton of money into rebuilding Detroit as a US manufacturing center, it makes more sense to invite its former residents to be a part of doing so someplace nice to live...if at all.
    Great post.
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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Well, which is it? Are unions the "single influence" or are they the "biggest influence"? They can't be both.
    No one has ever said that they were the only reason but they certainly are the largest reason. Unfortunately, there are lots of union supporters who act like just because they can find another problem in Detroit, that the unions are magically off the hook.

    It doesn't work that way.
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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Great post.
    Thanks. I think if there is a massive federal response to rescue Detroit under a US manufacturing argument, I can think of a lot of places far better suited than the upper Mid-West on the border with Canada. I say if at all, which is another discussion; pick a place with a better climate, where land is cheap but within a few hours of fun stuff to do, on an Interstate highway and convenient to an international shipping port. Then invite the people of Detroit to move there, which I'm sure many would enthusiastically do. I'd rather see it come from the auto industry instead of the government though.

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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    At a time when the auto industry is bouncing back Detroit goes bust? Maybe because auto manufacturers have moved to right to work states? Maybe because public unions in Detroit have wage and benefit packages that are out of hand? There is a lesson here, learn it.
    I've been hearing that it's racism that killed Detroit. More to come as I do a little more familiarizing...

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    Re: Did unions bankrupt Detroit

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    I've been hearing that it's racism that killed Detroit. More to come as I do a little more familiarizing...
    I would suspect cronyism more than racism.
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