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Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743:1845; 2006]

Who will still be standing


  • Total voters
    82
  • Poll closed .
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Because theists keep redefining God out of any possible proof. The God of the gaps keeps failing and theists have to keep jumping gaps as science fills them with actual fact. When are we going to get to the gaps that actually contain God?
Never, those gaps will never be filled.
It's an open forum, anyone is free to respond to any post made. Surely you knew that.
I could say the same to you. I can post that you are barking up the wrong tree with mixing science and theology.


No, just once again pointing out the truth about the absurdity of religion.
All you are doing is pointing out how little you understand about my beliefs.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Perhaps I claim that because that is actually what God said through the Bible. Remember, Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden because they ate a piece of fruit, sin is sin no matter what.

Maybe they got sick of being pets in a terrarium........................
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Perhaps I claim that because that is actually what God said through the Bible. Remember, Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden because they ate a piece of fruit, sin is sin no matter what.

I guess when you can prove-with empirical evidence-that the Bible really is the word of God, not the interpretation by fallible men (I won't demand you do the impossible-prove the existence of God) of what He said, then I might actually would care.

I don't think the actions of others should be constrained based on such ephemeral and flimsy evidence. and a Church that refuses to change might not remain. The Mormons now accept Blacks, most Catholics support people using condoms etc.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

I beg to differ. You certainly have put words in God's mouth.

Really? All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. The wages of sin is death.

It doesn't give specific sins, it just says sin.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Grab a bible and point out where God commands heterosexuals to BE heterosexuals. And remember... there is a difference between sexual orientation and sexual behavior, so stating "being fruitful and multiply" doesn't cut it. That's a behavior.
Wrong. It's a commandment from God. Heterosexuals are the only ones who can be fruitful and multiply, so clearly he is referring to them. Now grab a Bible and point out where God has the same kind of edict for homosexuals.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Perhaps I claim that because that is actually what God said through the Bible. Remember, Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden because they ate a piece of fruit, sin is sin no matter what.

It wasn't for eating fruit. The word malus with an accent Mark over the u is the word for apple. The word malus with no accent Mark is the word for evil. The tree and serpent is a romanticized medieval translation.

Sin is sin we are all sinners, Romans 3:23, look it up.
Plus homosexuality isn't a sin.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Really? All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. The wages of sin is death.

It doesn't give specific sins, it just says sin.

Then what are you ranting and raving about gay people for? Of they pay for their sin with death just like you will, what is with you're insisting that they aren't Christian?
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Wrong. It's a commandment from God. Heterosexuals are the only ones who can be fruitful and multiply, so clearly he is referring to them. Now grab a Bible and point out where God has the same kind of edict for homosexuals.

Except "God" didn't know about orientations. All he knew was people doing bad things. "God" doesn't sound like the sharpest knife in the drawer............................
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Who is hating? I am not hating. There is a difference between hating the sin and the sinner.

WHo said I meant you? I was talking about if you helped end hate.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Wrong. It's a commandment from God. Heterosexuals are the only ones who can be fruitful and multiply, so clearly he is referring to them. Now grab a Bible and point out where God has the same kind of edict for homosexuals.

He also didn't say to be celibate and not multiply yet not only are there millions of celibate Christians that don't multiply, Jesus himself broke that himself. He wasn't fruitful, he didn't multiply.

That is a weak argument. Because God ordered the only two people on the planet to start a species that that is some form of example we must live by. That is crack pot theology.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Except that isn't what I am doing.

But you are speaking for God when you don't know what he would say.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

But you are speaking for God when you don't know what he would say.

You said your boyfriend is Christian right? I take it based on your signature details that you are male. So I assume you are gay correct me if I am wrong please.

Are you Christian, thinking about it, or supportive of your boyfriend's beliefs?
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

You said your boyfriend is Christian right? I take it based on your signature details that you are male. So I assume you are gay correct me if I am wrong please.

Are you Christian, thinking about it, or supportive of your boyfriend's beliefs?

Yes, I am gay. I am Nazarene and my boyfriend is Catholic. I support his beliefs as well though.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Yes, I am gay. I am Nazarene and my boyfriend is Catholic. I support his beliefs as well though.

That's nice, I am gay and my boyfriend was brought up in the Mormon church. I was raised Catholic. We are episcopal now.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

sorry but the fact remains there are still Mormons that do not allow blacks to lay in priesthood and can not participate in most temple ordinances, including the endowment and celestial marriage. :shrug: they believe to still be the mark of cain and to be a curse. Its racist and they still exist, whether you agree with these Mormons or not is meaningless to their beliefs. You lose to facts again.

That is absolutely false.

nope its 100% fact and your trying to dishonestly deny it wont change this fact :shrug:
facts defeat you again

I've been a Mormon all my life (fifty years, so far), as were all my parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents. My great-great grandfather, Edwin Rushton was a friend and acquaintance of Joseph Smith.

I think I can claim some credible expertise with regard to what it is that I have been taught, what I have practiced, and what I have believed, as a Mormon.

You, on the other hand are very obviously completely ignorant on the subject; and yet, it is certainly completely consistent with your general practices on this forum to claim greater expertise on a subject about which you clearly know nothing at all, that someone who has been living that subject for longer than you've likely been alive.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

I've been a Mormon all my life (fifty years, so far), as were all my parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents. My great-great grandfather, Edwin Rushton was a friend and acquaintance of Joseph Smith.

I think I can claim some credible expertise with regard to what it is that I have been taught, what I have practiced, and what I have believed, as a Mormon.

You, on the other hand are very obviously completely ignorant on the subject; and yet, it is certainly completely consistent with your general practices on this forum to claim greater expertise on a subject about which you clearly know nothing at all, that someone who has been living that subject for longer than you've likely been alive.

Is it a fact at one point in time Mormons viewed black people as a subspecies ala doctrine or not?
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Is it a fact at one point in time Mormons viewed black people as a subspecies ala doctrine or not?

Not really.

It is true that starting at some time that cannot clearly be nailed down, and ending with a revelation given to the Prophet Spencer Kimball in 1978, Negroes were not allowed to hold the Priesthood or to participate in the Temple ceremonies.

As I said, it's difficult to nail down when this prohibition began, or why. Joseph Smith held some views on race that, in his day, were considered rather extreme and unusual. He considered Negros to be fundamentally equal to other races, and wrote that he believed that the only thing preventing them from achieving everything that Caucasians achieved was they way that they were being treated. It would be more than a century before such an opinion would come to be widely-accepted among Americans in general.

Brigham Young, of course, held views on the subject that were very much in line with what most Americans thought. There aren't any records that clearly indicate when the Priesthood was withdrawn from Negros, but it was during Young's time. There are some passages in scripture which can be easily taken to suggest that Negros are descendants of Noah's grandson, Caanan, whom Noah cursed because of Ham's offense against Noah; and that part of that curse was that all of Caanan's posterity were to be denied the Priesthood. It's also possible that those bits of scripture didn't mean that at all.

There never was any solidly-established doctrine that clearly said anything at all about the Negroid race; only what I would say were attempts to fit some existing scripture to the prevailing racial prejudices of the day.

It is notable that even during the time in which the Priesthood was withheld from Negros, we were one few very, very few “white” churches that would accept them as members at all.

Whether it was really God's will that this should happen, or merely an unavoidable artifact of the racism that was predominant in that time*, once that policy was put into place, it wasn't going to be reversed without God revealing through his prophet that it should be so. That revelation occurred in 1978, and is canonized in our scriptures as Offficial Declaration 2 in the Doctrine and Covenants.


* My own personal opinion and speculation† is this: It wasn't necessarily God's will that Negros should have been excluded from the Priesthood, nor made to take a lesser place in the church; but the racism that was in place at the time was such that too large a portion of the white population simply would not have accepted a church that treated Negros as equal. God could have told Brigham Young right away that such a policy was incorrect, and that the Church should treat blacks as equal to whites; and given such a revelation, church policy would have been enacted accordingly. But this would have alienated more potential white members, than it would have gained us black members, at a time, when the Church really needed to be growing in numbers just to be able to sustain itself; and would have resulted in excessive discord within the Church as a result of white members who simply could not accept blacks as their equals. The secular culture within and without the Church had some much-needed growing up to do before it was ready to accept such racial equality.

† Just to be clear, this is my own speculation and belief; it does not necessarily represent any position taken by the Church itself; and it is subject to change depending on any further information or guidance I may receive in the future.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Thank you for your comment Bob i do see the racism and superiority in comment though.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

So why not do what most Catholics do? Commit sins, go to confession, ask for forgiveness, do ten hail maries and one our father, and then go out and do it again, and come back to confession and confess it again, and then be forgiven again ... so, if a guy has sex with another guy, just go to the priest and confess it and be forgiven and then go get laid again and .... you get the picture, no?

No. While I appreciate that it looks that trivial to an outsider and perhaps to far too many Christians, that is not that way the confession/forgiveness process works.

Let's talk about that for a minute. How does your repentance process work? Break it down for me.

I don't buy your claim that you repent every day.

God forgives the confessed sin of the sinner with the repentant heart. There must be sincere conviction on the part of the sinner and a desire to change his/her ways. Yes, God will forgive the same sin many times ("....not seven times, but seventy times seven...")... but the core of forgiveness is the heart of repentance AND forgiving those that sin against you with the same heart that God forgives us.

It's not about going to confession and saying a prayer; its about saying a prayer of confession with a heart of regret and sorrow.

2 Chronicles 7:13-14 NKJV - When I shut up heaven and there is no - Bible Gateway

http://biblehub.com/esv/matthew/18.htm

The root of forgiveness is conviction (recognizing the sin and prayerfully confessing it) and repentance (a sincere desire to change your ways).

x
 
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re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Never, those gaps will never be filled.

So far, that's not the case. Which gaps, specifically, do you think will never be filled?

I could say the same to you. I can post that you are barking up the wrong tree with mixing science and theology.

And you can respond to me any time you want, I don't have to invite you to do so. Freedom is a wonderful thing, isn't it? I'm not mixing science and theology, I'm pointing out that one has reality and the other has nothing but fantasy.

All you are doing is pointing out how little you understand about my beliefs.

I don't care about your beliefs and never specifically mentioned your beliefs, have I? I've said I'm pointing out the absurdity of religion, not your religion. Of course, I'm willing to bet that your religion is just as absurd, but that's neither here nor there, it isn't part of any claim I've made.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

You could say that for every English word, doesn't mean the meaning of homosexuality was not present.

The concept of homosexual orientation wasn't described in the bible. Other concepts were.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

Where did you show that? I must have missed it, but it very much does apply.

Genesis describes procreation and where God commands man to be "fruitful and multiply". This discusses penis-vaginal sexual behavior. Notice the word I placed in bold. God does not command man to BE heterosexual.
 
re: Which religion will stand its ground against the gay agenda? [W:743]

It is against the nature of humanity. Sorry, try again.

Actually it's not. Sorry, try again.
 
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